OV9

MikeHunt wrote: Thu May 26, 2022 4:34 pm

Very good point!

Indeed. And the other key point for me not being discussed is that it's not just politicians that we have to raise questions over - but key senior civil servants. Supposedly the people that actually get on with the day to day running of the country. People you'd hope would be switched on enough, independently of their "leaders" to realise that what they were doing was fucking stupid.

Maybe the end is near..?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-politics-60289386

Brannen wrote: Mon Jun 06, 2022 8:15 am Maybe the end is near..?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-politics-60289386

15 percent to trigger it 51 percent to say out for it to happen - chance is zero.

I think it will depend on how badly the Tories want to win the next election. If (as some rumours suggest) they think it'll be a lost cause/poison chalice they might as well stick with Johnson and get rid when he loses the election, then a Labour government will take all the pain for the upcoming economic shitshow, then the Tories can "re-invent" themselves and sweep to power in the GE after, because the bulk of the electorate have short memories/read the Mail/Express/Telegraph and will vote how they're told to vote.

The problem as I see it is Polls and commentators are only the detractors or wanting in this case to protect their own marginal seat. They are all in it for themselves. The reality is nothing will change and tomorrow is yet another day of Boris bumbling along. Booooo

He will absolutely not go regardless of the vote, it would take something extreme like MPs resigning en masse to get him gone. I don't think that there are enough principled MPs to do that though.

It still boggles my mind that if the PM falls in a no confidence vote (or resigns) it doesn't trigger a GE. Surely a vote of no confidence in the leader of the government is a vote of no confidence in them all?

DeskJockey wrote: Mon Jun 06, 2022 11:19 am It still boggles my mind that if the PM falls in a no confidence vote (or resigns) it doesn't trigger a GE. Surely a vote of no confidence in the leader of the government is a vote of no confidence in them all?

We elect a party of government, not a President so it doesn't follow that a VONC in the leader is a rejection of the party entirely - the replacement could in theory remedy the deficiencies of the toppled leader.

You could change our system to trigger a GE when a leader loses a VONC but then in reality they would never happen at all as typically the last thing MPs would want is a GE right after the defenestration of the PM. I'm not sure being stuck with a single leader for the whole term is a better outcome/promotes accountability.

I understand the mechanism, just not the reasoning. And, irrespective of whether a new leader can fix what was wrong with the predecessor, it still means that a fraction of the electorate decides for all. It is a fundamentally flawed process/structure in my view.

DeskJockey wrote: Mon Jun 06, 2022 12:26 pmIt is a fundamentally flawed process/structure in my view.

Agree entirely

Already over

Ranil is my local MP and he just tows the line on everything.

Why do none of the supporting MPs' tweets say anything genuine? All guff about the bigger picture. The bigger picture is that he does fuck all even when he's not lying and u-turning.

If he wins tonight (and he might do), I suspect the drubbing in the two upcoming by-elections will be so bad, he'll be ousted after that. He's not protected from another no confidence vote for 12 months except by rules which can easily be changed and which are intended to make things happen, not prevent things from happening.

A particularly good letter to the PM from Jesse Norman MP:

I've actually been watching the various news channels today;

Sky as shit as ever
BBC as lefty as possible
Talk tv last hour had Adam Boulton on and a Kate Mccann ex Sky..... now Morgan who is an instant turn off
Lets see how Farage does on GB News

All in all they all seem to want this to be really close just so we pay attention for once

BBCs Nick Robinson:

History shows that PMs who "win" still end up losing - Thatcher resigned 8 days after winning, May within 6 months & Major lost to Blair in a landslide ...

Zonda_ wrote: Mon Jun 06, 2022 8:18 pm BBCs Nick Robinson:

History shows that PMs who "win" still end up losing - Thatcher resigned 8 days after winning, May within 6 months & Major lost to Blair in a landslide ...

It's nearly 3 years since your first post on this thread

Got to be right eventually.