Bye bye Starmer

[ZedLeg]

If the price goes up too much people will just start buying black market fags, which is an even bigger health risk.

I find the difference in attitude between stuff like smoking and over eating fascinating tbh.

Like, if someone is obese they're the worst, most weak willed person alive and should be brow beaten into losing weight or pay extra for medical treatment.

If someone wants to smoke though, personal choice mate, we shouldn't be telling people what to do.

[GG.]

I'd say its the complete opposite of that.

Most people would be extremely against mandatory gastric bands or surcharges on NHS treatment for obesity but are absolutely fine with banning smoking.

[ZedLeg]

I agree, it’s the contrarians I’m looking at and I’m curious as to how they justify those mental gymnastics in their heads

[ZedLeg]

Where is Starmer getting his statistics from? He's quoted as saying there are 80,000 deaths a year because of smoking. The ONS statistics I'm looking at has Dementia and Alzheimers at no 1 with Ischemic heart disease at no 2 with 65k and 38k deaths respectively.

ETA: OK so it seems that it is an NHS estimation which extrapolates what they estimate as the underlying cause of cancers and respiratory diseases. Apparently there are still 6.4m smokers in the UK which I was surprised at - again it would be interesting to know if that is 6.4m regular smokers or people who fall into that demographic by declaring they smoke occasionally and also their age range as I expect it is now distributed towards older people and therefore will inherently reduce over time.

I think with all of these things, on its own it doesn't raise large concerns from the majority that don't smoke but that not what supporting freedom of choice really means. It is also to be viewed in the context of increasingly illiberal positions on free speech including the legal actionability of statements that plainly shouldn't be, the wide swathes of nonsense 20mph zones that won't save any lives, regulation of hundreds of miles of smart motorway with average speed monitoring, the banning of meat on council menus, the mandated use of 7 different bins for recycling, etc. etc. etc.. The state as a whole always has a tendency for massive overreach and extremely questionable decisions made mostly on ideology and not on cost/benefit or cause/effect.

If Starmer is so worried about the burden on the NHS then work out what cost is not offset by the tax raised on the sale of cigarettes and increase the rate of tax accordingly.

Isn’t this literally arguing for not banning cigarettes?

[GG.]

Yes - I'm not hugely keen on banning cigarettes. Not because I smoke or like cigarettes but because I don't like banning things, whether that is cigarettes, meat, internal combustions engines, etc.

[mik]

I'd say its the complete opposite of that.

Most people would be extremely against mandatory gastric bands or surcharges on NHS treatment for obesity but are absolutely fine with banning smoking.

What about those guys that binge-eat packets of fags though?

[ZedLeg]

Yes - I'm not hugely keen on banning cigarettes. Not because I smoke or like cigarettes but because I don't like banning things, whether that is cigarettes, meat, internal combustions engines, etc.

So most people but not you

Are you as live and let live about people who end up in hospital due to obesity?

[ZedLeg]

I'd say its the complete opposite of that.

Most people would be extremely against mandatory gastric bands or surcharges on NHS treatment for obesity but are absolutely fine with banning smoking.

What about those guys that binge-eat packets of fags though?

Got really confused about how that punishment works.

Catch your kid smoking and force them to eat a carton of cigarettes.

[GG.]

Yes - I'm not hugely keen on banning cigarettes. Not because I smoke or like cigarettes but because I don't like banning things, whether that is cigarettes, meat, internal combustions engines, etc.

So most people but not you

Are you as live and let live about people who end up in hospital due to obesity?

I think we need to offer people support if they need it.

On obesity - with the latest developments in GLP-1 medications, I'm hopeful that huge strides can be made in combating obesity through those means rather than sugar taxes and behaviour nudging away from fatty/high sugar foods (which clearly just increases tax revenue and does very little to reduce obesity).

That is what I would be focussing on if I were Starmer - ensuring that medication is widely available, free on prescription, to as many overweight people as possible.

[ZedLeg]

Can’t argue with that.

It’s what I want for smokers too (anyone with an addiction tbh). Whatever help they need to quit/manage the addiction, rather than making it a “freedom” issue, look at it as a public health issue.

[ZedLeg]

Starmer is apparently going after the overeaters too. Publicly shaming people over their weight is bound to go down well.

IMG_1696.jpeg (328.09 KiB) Viewed 1488 times

[Gavster]

Yes - I'm not hugely keen on banning cigarettes. Not because I smoke or like cigarettes but because I don't like banning things, whether that is cigarettes, meat, internal combustions engines, etc.

So most people but not you

Are you as live and let live about people who end up in hospital due to obesity?

I think we need to offer people support if they need it.

On obesity - with the latest developments in GLP-1 medications, I'm hopeful that huge strides can be made in combating obesity through those means rather than sugar taxes and behaviour nudging away from fatty/high sugar foods (which clearly just increases tax revenue and does very little to reduce obesity).

That is what I would be focussing on if I were Starmer - ensuring that medication is widely available, free on prescription, to as many overweight people as possible.

FWIW some of the big food companies are already working out how to make convenience food that appeals to Ozempic users because they’re concerned that sales of high fat salt and sugar products will suffer

[Rich B]

Starmer is apparently going after the overeaters too. Publicly shaming people over their weight is bound to go down well.

IMG_1696.jpeg

publicly? where have you seen that?

health checks have been offered for over 40s for a long time, but i see this as a good opportunity to get people to have a once over without the hassles of trying to get GP appointments/time off.

[Gavster]

Starmer is apparently going after the overeaters too. Publicly shaming people over their weight is bound to go down well.

IMG_1696.jpeg

Healthcare in the workplace is a good thing and NHS will definitely make sure the weighing is done privately, not publicly.

[ZedLeg]

I don’t know, I think that having people getting weighed at work seems like a perfect environment for bullying tbh.

I’ve got no problem with people getting health checks.

[Swervin_Mervin]

Starmer is apparently going after the overeaters too. Publicly shaming people over their weight is bound to go down well.

IMG_1696.jpeg

So the system that can't get enough staff to manage its existing commitments is going to manage to get staff that can roam the country's offices and other work environments how?

I wonder if the information they dish out or advice the peddle will be sponsored by industry. I remember getting a lecture the first time I registered at a GPs when we moved to our previous house. Had a general health screening to get on their books and it was all good. But she was horrified at the amount of dairy I consumed - whole milk and butter - and trying to convince me to change. Told her that low fat spreads were a load of crap and I wouldn't be putting that junk through me. She still made me take away an information sheet though. Until I realised it was produced by Flora! At which point I just said I'd leave her sponsored sales pitch ta.

15-20 years later and the chat around dairy being so horrendously bad for us suddenly started to change...

[Beany]

Can’t argue with that.

It’s what I want for smokers too (anyone with an addiction tbh). Whatever help they need to quit/manage the addiction, rather than making it a “freedom” issue, look at it as a public health issue.

Bit fucking stupid banning vaping in public places (well, pub gardens etc) along with smoking then - you'd think they'd want to encourage people to stop smoking by making a relatively easy to switch to, massively less harmful alternative to be more appealing etc.

It's not for everyone, but lumping it in with ciggies will (continue....) to make people think they're on the same scale of harm, whereas vaping is like stubbing your toe on the coffee table, compared to the multi-car pile-up that is smoking.

[ZedLeg]

We should be banning disposable vapes and age restricting the rest of the industry imo.

The amount of kids taking up vaping should be ringing alarm bells somewhere.

[ZedLeg]

Starmer is apparently going after the overeaters too. Publicly shaming people over their weight is bound to go down well.

IMG_1696.jpeg

So the system that can't get enough staff to manage its existing commitments is going to manage to get staff that can roam the country's offices and other work environments how?

I wonder if the information they dish out or advice the peddle will be sponsored by industry. I remember getting a lecture the first time I registered at a GPs when we moved to our previous house. Had a general health screening to get on their books and it was all good. But she was horrified at the amount of dairy I consumed - whole milk and butter - and trying to convince me to change. Told her that low fat spreads were a load of crap and I wouldn't be putting that junk through me. She still made me take away an information sheet though. Until I realised it was produced by Flora! At which point I just said I'd leave her sponsored sales pitch ta.

15-20 years later and the chat around dairy being so horrendously bad for us suddenly started to change...

All the things that were bad about dairy/ sat fat 20 years ago are still bad.

That the industrially manufactured replacements weren’t much better doesn’t change that.

Also we have dudes with beards on podcasts telling us that if we eat anything but beef and raw milk you’ll grow tits.

I don’t think the consensus is any clearer now than then tbh.

[Swervin_Mervin]

We should be banning disposable vapes and age restricting the rest of the industry imo.

The amount of kids taking up vaping should be ringing alarm bells somewhere.

Yep. The litter alone from them is ridiculous