OV9

Good to see that not even a global pandemic can slow our race to corporate dystopia

On a lighter note - we've just received our 3rd food delivery box from HM Gov't. This despite having been phoned 2 weeks ago to ask if we still need them and us saying no. And the wife having made the same notification online last week after our 2nd delivery...

Still, most of it's going straight to the local foodbank - so at least the 330 gets another run out tomorrow morning! Have to say as well that the contents of the foodboxes have been pretty bloody reasonable imo, despite intial media coverage (at least locally) to the contrary. This week's includes

1 box of cereal
1 loaf of bread
2 cartons of longlife milk
1 carton of longlie fruit juice
1 bag of tea bags and coffee sachets
1 bar of soap
1 bottle of shower gel
2 tins of beans
2 tins of tomato soup
1 tin of chopped toms
1 tin of meat (chicken meatballs this week)
1 bag of Pembs potatoes
1 bag of carrots
1 bag of apples
1 bag of oranges
1 pack of pasta
1 multipack bag of Maryland cookies
2 bog rolls

Orange Cola wrote: Tue May 05, 2020 10:06 pm

Ascender wrote: Tue May 05, 2020 9:36 pm Yeah, I was bored to tears earlier with work so did a bit more reading on it and have no idea why the government decided not to go with the Apple/Google effort. I’d seen stuff on Twitter about possible dubious links to the developers who landed the work, but the app seems flawed from the start and regardless of the unique circumstances, they’re going to be questioned about the possible use of data by the government. That’s something which the Apple effort is very clear on, that privacy is key.

Is it bad that I’d have no issue with installing the Apple version onto my iPhone but I’d try and find a way around putting something on from our own government.

Its a tricky one - I’d have no problem with an Apple app as they’ve no interest in your data and develop stuff with privacy in mind. It looks like they’ve done the same with this app (naturally) and so its fine for the Android handsets too.

Under the circumstances, surely our government won’t be doing anything under-handed with any data collected? Twitter does seem to be full of posts suggesting that the app T&Cs aren’t very clear-cut, but you know, its Twitter...

Swervin_Mervin wrote: Tue May 05, 2020 10:55 pm

Orange Cola wrote: Tue May 05, 2020 10:06 pm

Ascender wrote: Tue May 05, 2020 9:36 pm Yeah, I was bored to tears earlier with work so did a bit more reading on it and have no idea why the government decided not to go with the Apple/Google effort. I’d seen stuff on Twitter about possible dubious links to the developers who landed the work, but the app seems flawed from the start and regardless of the unique circumstances, they’re going to be questioned about the possible use of data by the government. That’s something which the Apple effort is very clear on, that privacy is key.

Is it bad that I’d have no issue with installing the Apple version onto my iPhone but I’d try and find a way around putting something on from our own government.

Would you say that if it was the Google version on your android device though...? Genuine question that. I'd imagine it might be more close run or maybe that's just my perception of Google

From what I’ve read its a single app being developed by both for both platforms so its ok.

Swervin_Mervin wrote: Wed May 06, 2020 12:15 pm On a lighter note - we've just received our 3rd food delivery box from HM Gov't. This despite having been phoned 2 weeks ago to ask if we still need them and us saying no. And the wife having made the same notification online last week after our 2nd delivery...

Still, most of it's going straight to the local foodbank - so at least the 330 gets another run out tomorrow morning! Have to say as well that the contents of the foodboxes have been pretty bloody reasonable imo, despite intial media coverage (at least locally) to the contrary. This week's includes

1 box of cereal
1 loaf of bread
2 cartons of longlife milk
1 carton of longlie fruit juice
1 bag of tea bags and coffee sachets
1 bar of soap
1 bottle of shower gel
2 tins of beans
2 tins of tomato soup
1 tin of chopped toms
1 tin of meat (chicken meatballs this week)
1 bag of Pembs potatoes
1 bag of carrots
1 bag of apples
1 bag of oranges
1 pack of pasta
1 multipack bag of Maryland cookies
2 bog rolls

What brand of tea bags?

Ascender wrote: Wed May 06, 2020 12:59 pm Under the circumstances, surely our government won’t be doing anything under-handed with any data collected? Twitter does seem to be full of posts suggesting that the app T&Cs aren’t very clear-cut, but you know, its Twitter...

Difficult to be specific about what nefarious purposes they might have in mind, but Matthew Gould, CEO of NHSX was evasive to the point of dishonesty in the Human Rights Committee hearing.
What was stated:
Data will not be deleted
Data will be and always remain property of NHSX
It will be used for unspecified "research purposes"
Despite repeated insistence that all data is anonymous and individuals are unidentifiable, he was forced to concede this is not true once users notify of symptoms (exactly the extent of the data collection at this point is unclear)

Plus the fact that the app was co-authored by the same people as heavily leveraged data analysis for the Vote Leave campaign

I think my scepticism over responsible and wholesome use of the data was pretty high anyway, but for me the nail in the coffin of trust is the degree to which Elizabeth Denham, Information Commissioner is being lent on to turn a blind eye (in the face of raising deep and serious concerns) seals the deal.

unzippy wrote: Wed May 06, 2020 2:11 pm

Swervin_Mervin wrote: Wed May 06, 2020 12:15 pm On a lighter note - we've just received our 3rd food delivery box from HM Gov't. This despite having been phoned 2 weeks ago to ask if we still need them and us saying no. And the wife having made the same notification online last week after our 2nd delivery...

Still, most of it's going straight to the local foodbank - so at least the 330 gets another run out tomorrow morning! Have to say as well that the contents of the foodboxes have been pretty bloody reasonable imo, despite intial media coverage (at least locally) to the contrary. This week's includes

1 box of cereal
1 loaf of bread
2 cartons of longlife milk
1 carton of longlie fruit juice
1 bag of tea bags and coffee sachets
1 bar of soap
1 bottle of shower gel
2 tins of beans
2 tins of tomato soup
1 tin of chopped toms
1 tin of meat (chicken meatballs this week)
1 bag of Pembs potatoes
1 bag of carrots
1 bag of apples
1 bag of oranges
1 pack of pasta
1 multipack bag of Maryland cookies
2 bog rolls

What brand of tea bags?

Just checked and Clipper no less. Crappy nescafe sachets tho

Ascender wrote: Wed May 06, 2020 1:00 pm

Swervin_Mervin wrote: Tue May 05, 2020 10:55 pm

Orange Cola wrote: Tue May 05, 2020 10:06 pm

Is it bad that I’d have no issue with installing the Apple version onto my iPhone but I’d try and find a way around putting something on from our own government.

Would you say that if it was the Google version on your android device though...? Genuine question that. I'd imagine it might be more close run or maybe that's just my perception of Google

From what I’ve read its a single app being developed by both for both platforms so its ok.

Surely that has no bearing on what Google choose to do with any data harvested via Android devices though?

wrote: The government must review lockdown measures on Thursday by law - but the PM said he was waiting until Sunday to announce the government's plans because more data would be available.

Not really, it's because if they said on Thursday that there was a relaxtion on Monday this piss takers that went to the beaches and parks when this started would take the piss again this bank holiday weekend as we're due nice weather.

Swervin_Mervin wrote: Wed May 06, 2020 2:35 pm

Ascender wrote: Wed May 06, 2020 1:00 pm

Swervin_Mervin wrote: Tue May 05, 2020 10:55 pm

Would you say that if it was the Google version on your android device though...? Genuine question that. I'd imagine it might be more close run or maybe that's just my perception of Google

From what I’ve read its a single app being developed by both for both platforms so its ok.

Surely that has no bearing on what Google choose to do with any data harvested via Android devices though?

The same data they can harvest from your handset anyway, if they wanted? Apple have done a good job of anonymising and de-centralising the data, but the interesting data could easily be mined from the OS anyway (location and proximity to other handsets).

The app is being written so it can’t & doesn’t harvest any data. The data being generated & shared app to app is all anonymised .

Ascender wrote: Wed May 06, 2020 5:12 pm The app is being written so it can’t & doesn’t harvest any data. The data being generated & shared app to app is all anonymised .

I don’t believe that for a minute. The whole concept of the app is to identify who has symptoms. You can’t do that anonymously.

Ascender wrote: Wed May 06, 2020 5:12 pm The app is being written so it can’t & doesn’t harvest any data. The data being generated & shared app to app is all anonymised .

That's the whole point of this centralised approach (as opposed to the Google/Apple model). The data (unique ID, coupled with your postcode, plus all the interactions you have with other users) stays on your phone until you report feeling ill, when it uploads all the data for the last 28 days, along with voluntarily submitted info.

drcarlos wrote: Wed May 06, 2020 3:49 pm

wrote: The government must review lockdown measures on Thursday by law - but the PM said he was waiting until Sunday to announce the government's plans because more data would be available.

Not really, it's because if they said on Thursday that there was a relaxtion on Monday this piss takers that went to the beaches and parks when this started would take the piss again this bank holiday weekend as we're due nice weather.

I reckon it’s because they saw the good weather forecast and don’t want mass 3-day parties

Jobbo wrote: Wed May 06, 2020 8:59 pm

drcarlos wrote: Wed May 06, 2020 3:49 pm

wrote: The government must review lockdown measures on Thursday by law - but the PM said he was waiting until Sunday to announce the government's plans because more data would be available.

Not really, it's because if they said on Thursday that there was a relaxtion on Monday this piss takers that went to the beaches and parks when this started would take the piss again this bank holiday weekend as we're due nice weather.

I reckon it’s because they saw the good weather forecast and don’t want mass 3-day parties

Yep. My daughter walks the dogs a couple of times a week on the beach whilst I'm shopping and usually comes across 10-15 people over a couple of miles. Today it was more like a 100.

We are clearly on the mend but the exit does worry me.

Definitely noticing more people out and about. It's annoying, you can tell a dog to sit and stay....

This is interesting:

https://lockdownsceptics.org/code-revie ... ons-model/

GG. wrote: Wed May 06, 2020 11:00 pm This is interesting:

https://lockdownsceptics.org/code-revie ... ons-model/

Interesting, but does it really makes any difference? We're essentially just copying other countries further ahead than us at this point.

Very interesting (although I’d probably understand more if I was an IT boffin).

[mention]duncs500[/mention] As always - short term (make that immediate term) views are prevalent at the moment.

“The total death rate is the 2nd highest in Europe - our leaders are the 2nd worst leaders in Europe making the 2nd worst decisions in Europe!”

<death rate rises slightly>

“The total death rate is the highest in Europe - our leaders are the worst leaders in Europe making the worst decisions in Europe!”

Only history will show what the longer term effects of lockdown are, and whether it, or a form of it, was the right/wrong decision.

mik wrote: Thu May 07, 2020 10:54 am Only history will show what the longer term effects of lockdown are, and whether it, or a form of it, was the right/wrong decision.

this...