OV9

Swervin_Mervin wrote: Tue May 05, 2020 10:28 am

drcarlos wrote: Tue May 05, 2020 10:18 am

Foz wrote: Tue May 05, 2020 9:41 am The economic impact is growing, we have to get some form of solution, the double covid/oil price impact locally here is rapidly becoming catastrophic.

how many of those furloughed have a job to return to, in hospitality that's going to be a tiny number

Isn't it 3 weeks since the last extension now? My mind is blurring weeks into each other.

If it is surely it's now time to start down the path trodden by the other countries so we can try and salvage what's left of these industries. Oil is never likely to be the same, even with Michael Moore trashing the green energy industry we are never likely to ramp up to the levels of pre covid as I think commuting will be massively cut and business travel almost non-existant.

I don't think commuting will drop that much. Nor business travel. Undoutbedly there will be long-lasting/permanent changes to travel behaviour, but we're creatures of habit with short memories, and we like our cars.I'd be surprised if any permanent change is more than a 10% fall in peak travel behaviour (which is in itself not inconsiderable).

I know our business are looking at scaling back offices based on how well the move to full home working went and how well work has continued. Yes we are only one business, but they were particularly old skool in their approach to many things (full business atire in the offices until #notpetya in 2017, after that casual) and only move when big things like this come along that forces the issue. There must be many others looking at offices as a cost to be pared back too.

duncs500 wrote: Tue May 05, 2020 1:36 pm

Ascender wrote: Tue May 05, 2020 12:54 pm What made the government develop their own app for contact tracing rather than tying in with Google & Apple to get their one? I saw something a while back that they thought the joint app wouldn’t be ready in time and wanted to take control of notifications centrally rather than enabling it on devices as it would give them better MI, but that didn’t make much sense to me so wasn’t sure what was going on.

From what I can gather, this way it allows them to automatically allocate tests to people (I guess it generates a code or link so you can order a test).

However, if it doesn't work in the background it's pretty fucked. If they tested it on an RAF base surely that was already enough to confirm that it doesn't work in that case!?

I guess its worked if people have the app open and their phones unlocked...

Ascender wrote: Tue May 05, 2020 1:12 pm

Beany wrote: Tue May 05, 2020 1:05 pm A critique here:
https://www.theregister.co.uk/2020/05/0 ... virus_app/

Eh?

It will work if people open the app and leave it open and the phone unlocked.

Govt IT project innit.

It won't work, then they'll either sell or leak the data.

drcarlos wrote: Tue May 05, 2020 2:11 pm

Swervin_Mervin wrote: Tue May 05, 2020 10:28 am

drcarlos wrote: Tue May 05, 2020 10:18 am

Isn't it 3 weeks since the last extension now? My mind is blurring weeks into each other.

If it is surely it's now time to start down the path trodden by the other countries so we can try and salvage what's left of these industries. Oil is never likely to be the same, even with Michael Moore trashing the green energy industry we are never likely to ramp up to the levels of pre covid as I think commuting will be massively cut and business travel almost non-existant.

I don't think commuting will drop that much. Nor business travel. Undoutbedly there will be long-lasting/permanent changes to travel behaviour, but we're creatures of habit with short memories, and we like our cars.I'd be surprised if any permanent change is more than a 10% fall in peak travel behaviour (which is in itself not inconsiderable).

I know our business are looking at scaling back offices based on how well the move to full home working went and how well work has continued. Yes we are only one business, but they were particularly old skool in their approach to many things (full business atire in the offices until #notpetya in 2017, after that casual) and only move when big things like this come along that forces the issue. There must be many others looking at offices as a cost to be pared back too.

100%

The office is now a significant burden, hot desking and WFH should probably become the norm, at least for a few days a week!

drcarlos wrote: Tue May 05, 2020 2:11 pm

Swervin_Mervin wrote: Tue May 05, 2020 10:28 am

drcarlos wrote: Tue May 05, 2020 10:18 am

Isn't it 3 weeks since the last extension now? My mind is blurring weeks into each other.

If it is surely it's now time to start down the path trodden by the other countries so we can try and salvage what's left of these industries. Oil is never likely to be the same, even with Michael Moore trashing the green energy industry we are never likely to ramp up to the levels of pre covid as I think commuting will be massively cut and business travel almost non-existant.

I don't think commuting will drop that much. Nor business travel. Undoutbedly there will be long-lasting/permanent changes to travel behaviour, but we're creatures of habit with short memories, and we like our cars.I'd be surprised if any permanent change is more than a 10% fall in peak travel behaviour (which is in itself not inconsiderable).

I know our business are looking at scaling back offices based on how well the move to full home working went and how well work has continued. Yes we are only one business, but they were particularly old skool in their approach to many things (full business atire in the offices until #notpetya in 2017, after that casual) and only move when big things like this come along that forces the issue. There must be many others looking at offices as a cost to be pared back too.

I googled notpetya and found it was a cyber attack, what does it have to do with full business attire?

drcarlos wrote: Tue May 05, 2020 2:11 pm

Swervin_Mervin wrote: Tue May 05, 2020 10:28 am

drcarlos wrote: Tue May 05, 2020 10:18 am

Isn't it 3 weeks since the last extension now? My mind is blurring weeks into each other.

If it is surely it's now time to start down the path trodden by the other countries so we can try and salvage what's left of these industries. Oil is never likely to be the same, even with Michael Moore trashing the green energy industry we are never likely to ramp up to the levels of pre covid as I think commuting will be massively cut and business travel almost non-existant.

I don't think commuting will drop that much. Nor business travel. Undoutbedly there will be long-lasting/permanent changes to travel behaviour, but we're creatures of habit with short memories, and we like our cars.I'd be surprised if any permanent change is more than a 10% fall in peak travel behaviour (which is in itself not inconsiderable).

I know our business are looking at scaling back offices based on how well the move to full home working went and how well work has continued. Yes we are only one business, but they were particularly old skool in their approach to many things (full business atire in the offices until #notpetya in 2017, after that casual) and only move when big things like this come along that forces the issue. There must be many others looking at offices as a cost to be pared back too.

There will be many looking to make changes, absolutley. But those changes ultimately won't lead to massive permanent reductions imo. My wife's worked for some of the most progressive laege corps with various measures in place for donkeys years and yet car trip generation is still significant.

In fact offices are some of the highest trip generating land uses out there. Like I said before, I'd be amazed if overall peak hour traffic levels fall by more than 10% permanently.

I hope it does as it'll make our line of work a fvck of a lot less hard work!

Rich B wrote: Tue May 05, 2020 2:46 pm

drcarlos wrote: Tue May 05, 2020 2:11 pm

Swervin_Mervin wrote: Tue May 05, 2020 10:28 am

I don't think commuting will drop that much. Nor business travel. Undoutbedly there will be long-lasting/permanent changes to travel behaviour, but we're creatures of habit with short memories, and we like our cars.I'd be surprised if any permanent change is more than a 10% fall in peak travel behaviour (which is in itself not inconsiderable).

I know our business are looking at scaling back offices based on how well the move to full home working went and how well work has continued. Yes we are only one business, but they were particularly old skool in their approach to many things (full business atire in the offices until #notpetya in 2017, after that casual) and only move when big things like this come along that forces the issue. There must be many others looking at offices as a cost to be pared back too.

I googled notpetya and found it was a cyber attack, what does it have to do with full business attire?

It's a bit tenuous isn't it.
The story behind it was that we were one of the worst hit (but also the most open about our recovery) and we were spending 17/18 hours a day in the office recovering the IT systems to bring the business back to life and it went on like this for about 6 weeks in total. Some of the early descisions were to relax the dress code to allow people more comfort, provide free meals and provide free snacks and fizzy drinks (the staples of the IT techs) to employees. The dress code and also to their credit the free meals remained after the recovery (they recognised that providing mountains for junk to snack on wasn't good long term so they were dropped). For IT people full business attire hasn't really been the norm anywhere I have worked in the past 15 years (except in certain situations) so it was quite odd having to wear a suit when I started there, as was having to make the trip to the office 3/4 times a week.
These situations have made them take notice that it's time to change.

Ascender wrote: Tue May 05, 2020 12:54 pm What made the government develop their own app for contact tracing rather than tying in with Google & Apple to get their one? I saw something a while back that they thought the joint app wouldn’t be ready in time and wanted to take control of notifications centrally rather than enabling it on devices as it would give them better MI, but that didn’t make much sense to me so wasn’t sure what was going on.

Presumably this government app is anonymising everything anyway?

App co-developed by Faculty.AI, who also happened to co-write the evaluation paper. CEO of Faculty.AI is Marc Warner, brother of Ben Warner (Dominic Cummings chief henchman for Brexit, and government enforcer on the SAGE panel).

Far be it for me to suggest that the decision to award the contract for the data harvesting, sorry, contract tracing, app to family members of the cabinet's war council was anything other than driven by the money, errr, science...

That is poor Nef...

dinny_g wrote: Tue May 05, 2020 6:48 pm That is poor Nef...

?

I think he means:

That is poor, Nef...
(as in agreement)

Punctuation ruleZ.

Yeah, I was bored to tears earlier with work so did a bit more reading on it and have no idea why the government decided not to go with the Apple/Google effort. I’d seen stuff on Twitter about possible dubious links to the developers who landed the work, but the app seems flawed from the start and regardless of the unique circumstances, they’re going to be questioned about the possible use of data by the government. That’s something which the Apple effort is very clear on, that privacy is key.

mr_jon wrote: Tue May 05, 2020 9:26 pm I think he means:

That is poor, Nef...
(as in agreement)

Punctuation ruleZ.

+1

Good find Nef.

Private Eye etc should be all over this.

Ascender wrote: Tue May 05, 2020 9:36 pm Yeah, I was bored to tears earlier with work so did a bit more reading on it and have no idea why the government decided not to go with the Apple/Google effort. I’d seen stuff on Twitter about possible dubious links to the developers who landed the work, but the app seems flawed from the start and regardless of the unique circumstances, they’re going to be questioned about the possible use of data by the government. That’s something which the Apple effort is very clear on, that privacy is key.

Is it bad that I’d have no issue with installing the Apple version onto my iPhone but I’d try and find a way around putting something on from our own government.

Orange Cola wrote: Tue May 05, 2020 10:06 pm

Ascender wrote: Tue May 05, 2020 9:36 pm Yeah, I was bored to tears earlier with work so did a bit more reading on it and have no idea why the government decided not to go with the Apple/Google effort. I’d seen stuff on Twitter about possible dubious links to the developers who landed the work, but the app seems flawed from the start and regardless of the unique circumstances, they’re going to be questioned about the possible use of data by the government. That’s something which the Apple effort is very clear on, that privacy is key.

Is it bad that I’d have no issue with installing the Apple version onto my iPhone but I’d try and find a way around putting something on from our own government.

Would you say that if it was the Google version on your android device though...? Genuine question that. I'd imagine it might be more close run or maybe that's just my perception of Google

mr_jon wrote: Tue May 05, 2020 9:26 pm I think he means:

That is poor, Nef...
(as in agreement)

Punctuation ruleZ.

Exactly... it’s rare government boys own club shithousery
Is that obvious...

Sorry Nef...

Swervin_Mervin wrote: Tue May 05, 2020 10:55 pm

Orange Cola wrote: Tue May 05, 2020 10:06 pm

Ascender wrote: Tue May 05, 2020 9:36 pm Yeah, I was bored to tears earlier with work so did a bit more reading on it and have no idea why the government decided not to go with the Apple/Google effort. I’d seen stuff on Twitter about possible dubious links to the developers who landed the work, but the app seems flawed from the start and regardless of the unique circumstances, they’re going to be questioned about the possible use of data by the government. That’s something which the Apple effort is very clear on, that privacy is key.

Is it bad that I’d have no issue with installing the Apple version onto my iPhone but I’d try and find a way around putting something on from our own government.

Would you say that if it was the Google version on your android device though...? Genuine question that. I'd imagine it might be more close run or maybe that's just my perception of Google

It’s a good question. I’ve never bought an Android because of the security and spam issues so it’s hard to compare first hand experiences with my own government to a platform I’ve never really used for more than a few minutes over the years. If I was buying an Android now I would have no trust in it and would treat it as such, I’d hold off participating until I knew the Google solution was good, I’d look into their history of leaks and data breaches before making my mind up.

Contrast that to our government and I guess the difference, and therefore the answer to the question is that I would actively look to not be part of the government solution but I’d give Android a reasonable review and therefore an opportunity before deciding.

Swervin_Mervin wrote: Tue May 05, 2020 10:55 pm

Orange Cola wrote: Tue May 05, 2020 10:06 pm

Ascender wrote: Tue May 05, 2020 9:36 pm Yeah, I was bored to tears earlier with work so did a bit more reading on it and have no idea why the government decided not to go with the Apple/Google effort. I’d seen stuff on Twitter about possible dubious links to the developers who landed the work, but the app seems flawed from the start and regardless of the unique circumstances, they’re going to be questioned about the possible use of data by the government. That’s something which the Apple effort is very clear on, that privacy is key.

Is it bad that I’d have no issue with installing the Apple version onto my iPhone but I’d try and find a way around putting something on from our own government.

Would you say that if it was the Google version on your android device though...? Genuine question that. I'd imagine it might be more close run or maybe that's just my perception of Google

Blimey, could we be getting to a point where people who buy Apple products actually have health benefits from their choice?

It seems an ridiculous idea, but it only takes a bit of PR to turn it into reality: "Do you feel safe sharing your data with Google? Apple have a track record of respecting and protecting privacy and anonymity. Protect yourself from COVID19 with our secure contact-tracing app."