Harry’s Garage

[integrale_evo]

Surely 1st and reverse require going through neutral on most autos?

Low ratios? A change to 3rd to hit 70 doesn’t seem particularly short, plus there are 8 of them!

How many are going to make it to their first service with that flap sticking down underneath?

Engine cover, meh, what do you expect. I’d imagine a fair bit of its purpose is to help that blower duct air over the turbo, not sure what they could have done to make it prettier?

Noise? I assume there’s some sound piping going on? It sounded a bit hollow and electronic in the onboards.

Pleased there’s barely any dsg fart or mapped in pops and bangs.

[DaveE]

£84k (OTR) for the i4 and £90k for the v6

Not much of a difference

As someone else said, I'm sure the i4 will get tuned to silly power - but does it really need it?

It would be interesting now to have a comparison of a manuel and auto v6 - a lot of what Harry and his son were talking about was related to the vagaries of the gearbox in the i4

[Jobbo]

Surely 1st and reverse require going through neutral on most autos?

Through neutral, yes - in one motion. This seems to require you to pull back the lever twice rather than once.

[mik]

Copy & pasted from somewhere else - info from the A45 with the same box. I am sure it has different size wheels/tyres, but for reference only:

Ratio / mph per 1000rpm / vMax (mph theoretical). Yes the lower ratios are low, but I don't see any real issues there. Upper ratios great for cruising/economy. VMax probably in 6th?

1st / 4.8 / 35
2nd / 6.8 / 49
3rd / 10.4 / 75
4th / 14.9 / 107
5th / 20.4 / 147
6th / 26.1 / 188
7th / 33.4 / 241
8th / 42.3 / 305

[Explosive Newt]

The price difference between the two is now (relatively) so small that it seems like a no brainer.

Aside (cheeky bastard comment) : Harry's son sounds a bit posher than he does. I assume MrM sent his sprogs to a fancy school. Seemed pretty relaxed in front of the camera though. I'm rather (ie very) jealous of his access to Harry's fleet at such a young age.

I suspect also he now spends his life dealing with the well-heeled at the posh garage he works in which is bound to alter your delivery.

22:37 - Guess who

[mik]

Aside (cheeky bastard comment) : Harry's son sounds a bit posher than he does. I assume MrM sent his sprogs to a fancy school. Seemed pretty relaxed in front of the camera though. I'm rather (ie very) jealous of his access to Harry's fleet at such a young age.

I suspect also he now spends his life dealing with the well-heeled at the posh garage he works in which is bound to alter your delivery.

Had to dig there as I wasn't aware. So I now see he is working for https://www.thehairpincompany.co.uk/for-sale/cars

[Explosive Newt]

Had to dig there as I wasn't aware. So I now see he is working for https://www.thehairpincompany.co.uk/for-sale/cars

I think he's a real car enthusiast although I'm not sure I would want to work in a sector where my dad's shadow looms over me. I've noticed a few of the cars advertised on hairpin company get reviewed by Harry on the channel.

[Rich B]

£84k (OTR) for the i4 and £90k for the v6

Not much of a difference

As someone else said, I'm sure the i4 will get tuned to silly power - but does it really need it?

It would be interesting now to have a comparison of a manuel and auto v6 - a lot of what Harry and his son were talking about was related to the vagaries of the gearbox in the i4

wait, didn't Mik say it was the same cost as an entry level cayman? £84k?!

[GG.]

£84k (OTR) for the i4 and £90k for the v6

Not much of a difference

As someone else said, I'm sure the i4 will get tuned to silly power - but does it really need it?

It would be interesting now to have a comparison of a manuel and auto v6 - a lot of what Harry and his son were talking about was related to the vagaries of the gearbox in the i4

wait, didn't Mik say it was the same cost as an entry level cayman? £84k?!

The V6 Launch Edition is 12k more than a Cayman GTS 4.0 but I expect very similar once the Cayman is specc'd equivalently. The inline 4 is £17.5k more than a 718 Boxster S (also 4cyl, 10bhp less) and so maybe 7.5k more than the equivalently specc'd equivalent Porsche.

None of it really makes either seem like a compelling buying proposition but I haven't watched the videos yet. Once you've factored into it that the depreciation on the Lotus will be quite a bit more you'd have to really want a Lotus to even consider it. The V6 and I4 also seem like direct competitors on price bar a few grand so that part of the strategy doesn't really add up either.

ETA: What I'd have done is negotiate the I4 and the V8 from Mercedes, lengthen the wheelbase by 6 inches to make it fit and price the v8 at 95k so the V8 undercuts the base 992 but has much more power (base 992 being 380hp I think). Aston probably have a contractual restriction on Merc selling anyone else their V8 though...

[duncs500]

I'm trying to think up some examples that would make me disagree with my own point, but when it comes to sports cars, in general I really don't think selling fundamentally different engine configurations in the same model is right.

The i4 cars should be smaller, lighter, more compact, and all round cheaper (by a good stretch) cars than their V6, V8, V10 or V12 cousins.

I know it's not a new idea, but still seems wrong.

[Rich B]

6 cyl, 400bhp, RWD, coupe... stick some back seats and a boot on it and I'd take it... oh, wait...

[duncs500]

I appreciate that development two entirely different platforms is expensive, but they could even use the same basic underpinnings. Tweak the styling, stick some cheaper materials on it, give it a different name and a more entry level price point. Then you have a reason for people to buy the halo model and more people access to the brand for the lower model, then hopefully they'll aspire to own the halo model in the future.

Seemed like a perfectly good system when Ferrari had the 'entry level' V8 model and then the V12 halo model.

[GG.]

You mean the I4 should have gone in an Elise with 2 seats and a V6 in a 2+2 like the Evora...

I think they could have got away with it if the daddy of the two had more oomph. I mean 30bhp less from a supercharged unit than my 8 year old GTS makes from a N/A 3.8 is really just not enough - particularly given it weighs pretty much exactly the same weight...

[Mito Man]

Do Halo models work? Are people that simple? I can’t imagine someone with the following thought process “Ah that Porsche 918 looks so good that I’m off to buy a totally different car from their line up like a Boxster which will share a few switches and a badge with the 918”

Never understood it. And that’s before you then make your halo car a silly electric thing. Am I buying an Emira because I like the Evija? Hang on that’s electric. Maybe I should buy the Eletre instead but that’s an SUV…

The Emira positioning is very unusual. Geely seem to have no interest pursuing ICE so it’s surprising that the whole thing actually went to production. I do wonder if they will keep developing it or if it’ll be killed off in a few years.

[mik]

£84k (OTR) for the i4 and £90k for the v6

wait, didn't Mik say it was the same cost as an entry level cayman? £84k?!

What mik actually said was "Price comparison with entry level Cayman doesn't create a very compelling argument in favour of the Emira."

So you're almost right Rich.

@duncs500 - my understanding is that the i4 is mainly here as the Toyota V6 won't be able to meet the ever-tightening emissions challenges as we head towards 2030.

@GG. Many folks believe Lotus are a £25-50k brand, so whilst your idea sounds kinda cool to me, I'm not sure it would prove a winner.

[Explosive Newt]

You mean the I4 should have gone in an Elise with 2 seats and a V6 in a 2+2 like the Evora...

I think they could have got away with it if the daddy of the two had more oomph. I mean 30bhp less from a supercharged unit than my 8 year old GTS makes from a N/A 3.8 is really just not enough - particularly given it weighs pretty much exactly the same weight...

Add lightness...

Modern car comparison
Lotus V6 400 Hp / 1405kg = 284 Hp/ton
911 GTS 473 Hp / 1636kg = 287 Hp/ton
Cayman GTS 395 Hp / 1496 kg = 264 Hp/ton

I think if you aren't fussed on the rear seats then actually the comparison is more with the 911. Harry's reviews of the V6 suggested the handling is more comparable.

[duncs500]

Do Halo models work? Are people that simple? I can’t imagine someone with the following thought process “Ah that Porsche 918 looks so good that I’m off to buy a totally different car from their line up like a Boxster which will share a few switches and a badge with the 918”

Never understood it.

I think you're making the wrong comparison really, it's probably more like I can't afford a 911 so I'm going to buy a Cayman.

[GG.]

You mean the I4 should have gone in an Elise with 2 seats and a V6 in a 2+2 like the Evora...

I think they could have got away with it if the daddy of the two had more oomph. I mean 30bhp less from a supercharged unit than my 8 year old GTS makes from a N/A 3.8 is really just not enough - particularly given it weighs pretty much exactly the same weight...

Add lightness...

Modern car comparison
Lotus V6 400 Hp / 1405kg = 284 Hp/ton
911 GTS 473 Hp / 1636kg = 287 Hp/ton
Cayman GTS 395 Hp / 1496 kg = 264 Hp/ton

I think if you aren't fussed on the rear seats then actually the comparison is more with the 911. Harry's reviews of the V6 suggested the handling is more comparable.

Not sure those weight figures are quite like for like - the Emira V6 DIN weight is 1405, correct, but the 992 GTS DIN is 1510kg. I think the 1636 may be EU laden kerb weight.

[Explosive Newt]

Not sure those weight figures are quite like for like - the Emira V6 DIN weight is 1405, correct, but the 992 GTS DIN is 1510kg. I think the 1636 may be EU laden kerb weight.

In which case 313 (for manuel), fair enough. I still feel 911 is perhaps a fairer comparison and I'm not sure focussing on power numbers for a Lotus is looking at what makes it so fun to drive.

[Beany]

Do Halo models work? Are people that simple?

People will spend £100 on a t-shirt because it's got a D&G label on it so they can show off how much money they have.

Yes, people are that simple.