OV9

Gavster wrote: Tue Dec 17, 2024 7:36 pm

Matty wrote: Tue Dec 17, 2024 7:27 pm
Cars are insanely expensive to own these days, genuinely wonder how some people afford to run modern cars.

Also what's happened to used values? I was looking at the used car prices when picking up the Seat today and was thinking how insane they are. My Ateca, which I paid £12k for (and that was a competitive price) was £15k in 2021 according to the invoice to the previous owner in paperwork. Really only lost £3k in 3 years?!?

I assumed by now the market would have tanked after the covid madness, with much high interest rates, huge cost of living rises and other things - but can only assume the top end of the market has become unachievable for most (unless leasing), so the bottom end has seen (and continues to have) high demand.

Or maybe people are so used to having big, flashy cars they're willing to get indebted to the eyeballs and/or forego other things to buy them? And on top of that, maintain them? I've got friends telling me about £1500 or more bills on regular Ford/Vauxhall/VAG stuff because of all the mad tech they cram in. Crazy.

Gavster wrote: Tue Dec 17, 2024 7:36 pm

Matty wrote: Tue Dec 17, 2024 7:27 pm
Cars are insanely expensive to own these days, genuinely wonder how some people afford to run modern cars.

Also what's happened to used values? I was looking at the used car prices when picking up the Seat today and was thinking how insane they are. My Ateca, which I paid £12k for (and that was a competitive price) was £15k in 2021 according to the invoice to the previous owner in paperwork. Really only lost £3k in 3 years?!?

Inflation propping up prices a great deal. Also new car prices being so much more.

Carlos wrote: Tue Dec 17, 2024 7:40 pm Lack of supply of new cars during COVID really propped up up used cars but the recent trade figures suggest that bubble is about to burst. Stats show Q4 sales way down.

According to the big PH thread that did the rounds, the stats/figures have shown a bubble burst is imminent for the last 2+ years now...but...it hasn't happened.

Toying with a 'new' car for the misses, 20k buys an average 5 year old SUV. Saloon/hatch prices seem more sensible but alas the misses is not interested.

Friend in the trade says it's very slow atm, can only go one way surely.

Matty wrote: Tue Dec 17, 2024 7:47 pm

Carlos wrote: Tue Dec 17, 2024 7:40 pm Lack of supply of new cars during COVID really propped up up used cars but the recent trade figures suggest that bubble is about to burst. Stats show Q4 sales way down.

According to the big PH thread that did the rounds, the stats/figures have shown a bubble burst is imminent for the last 2+ years now...but...it hasn't happened.

It has relatively depending on what you're looking at. I bought my GTS for 75k only 18 months ago and its worth 60ish now. That's a much larger drop than there normally would be between 8.5 and 10 years old. Admittedly it was from a Porsche dealer so c. 1800 was warranty I think - still has done probably 10k in the time I've had it.

The Porsche market has probably seen one of the largest corrections.

Matty wrote: Tue Dec 17, 2024 7:47 pm

Carlos wrote: Tue Dec 17, 2024 7:40 pm Lack of supply of new cars during COVID really propped up up used cars but the recent trade figures suggest that bubble is about to burst. Stats show Q4 sales way down.

According to the big PH thread that did the rounds, the stats/figures have shown a bubble burst is imminent for the last 2+ years now...but...it hasn't happened.

I was reading some trade blog yesterday and it's looking like the number of used sales Q4 is going to be 20% down on 2023. I appreciate that's not an indicator on prices but with finance rates still much higher than they were, the cost of regulation, warranty and complaints to deal with the only incentive the market has to shift metal is price.

Also the quality of cars out there is utter shit.

I’ve seen 2 Clio 182s and both had clear rot coming through and one looked like the interior had been wiped over with a gravelly rag.

I luckily haven’t been in one used by a caper yet but no doubt I’ll end up with a perfect car ruined by the pungent smell of lemon sorbet.

Dave!

One of the dealers I visited said exactly that @V8Granite, he said it's easy to sell cars, but much harder to find good stock.

I’ve thought about swapping the mito out, but I’d have to pay double what it cost me 6 years ago for something similar spec / performance / condition. Just doesn’t seem worth it, pretty much resigned to keeping it and running it into the ground.

Decent cheap (sub £5k) cars just don’t seem to exist any more.

V8Granite wrote: Wed Dec 18, 2024 9:14 am Also the quality of cars out there is utter shit.

I’ve seen 2 Clio 182s and both had clear rot coming through and one looked like the interior had been wiped over with a gravelly rag.

I luckily haven’t been in one used by a caper yet but no doubt I’ll end up with a perfect car ruined by the pungent smell of lemon sorbet.

Dave!

They're 20+ year old hot hatches - you’ll be lucky to find one that hasn’t been ragged through its life, chavved, tracked, unloved, etc…. and they weren’t that hard wearing in the first place - the steering wheels fell apart if you touched them!

In 1991 the 405 SRI was about £14500. I bought a 71,000 mile one in 2001 for £1195, nice condition.

Now the Clio 182 was roughly the same and at double the age is three times the cost.

Modern car prices just make no sense to me.

Dave!

V8Granite wrote: Wed Dec 18, 2024 12:53 pm In 1991 the 405 SRI was about £14500. I bought a 71,000 mile one in 2001 for £1195, nice condition.

Now the Clio 182 was roughly the same and at double the age is three times the cost.

Modern car prices just make no sense to me.

Dave!

the 182 has 3 times the audience now though. A proper little hot hatches with track day appeal too.

That, and just inflation would make it over £2k

That, and modern cars tend to last better - a ten year old car in 2001 had far more chance of being a rotten shitbox which feels like it'd tend drag down the prices of relatively clean ones. Modern cars don't tend to rust to pieces anywhere near as much, for example. Be interesting to see if anyones done any real research on it, I guess.

I'm accentuating the 'tend' because obviously every car is different, but most cheaper used cars these days don't have amateurishly patched sills or rotted out spare wheel wells etc.

I'm constantly surprised by just how much of used car costs (and new cars) these days is mostly just inflation. IE the Evora isn't horribly priced when you compare it to an S1 Exige (and consider it's a class above - a GT rather than a stripped out track weapon) when you take that into account.

In short, getting old fucking sucks

I got a 1974 VW Beetle on my 17th birthday (Parents gave £500, I contributed the rest from an insurance payout after being run over the previous year), which was in November 1994, making the car precisely 20 years old. That felt like an old, rusty, classic car. Admittedly the Beetle was an old design that had been around for years, but nonetheless, it felt like a very old car.

On the other hand, the Smart I just sold was 20 years old too, yet despite that, it felt like it had aged far better than the VW. I mean, the VW had needed a full respray before I got it ffs

Gavster wrote: Wed Dec 18, 2024 2:33 pm Admittedly the Beetle was an old design that had been around for decades, but nonetheless, it felt like a very old car.

EFA - 1938!!!

Gavster wrote: Wed Dec 18, 2024 2:33 pm I got a 1974 VW Beetle on my 17th birthday (Parents gave £500, I contributed the rest from an insurance payout after being run over the previous year), which was in November 1994, making the car precisely 20 years old. That felt like an old, rusty, classic car.

My first car was a Mk2 Escort which was 12yrs old when I got it - less than 6 months in I discovered the main front-to-rear chassis rails were completely rusted through (on both sides). Had to scrap the whole car. It seemed mad at the time, but would be totally unthinkable now.

mik wrote: Wed Dec 18, 2024 2:48 pm

Gavster wrote: Wed Dec 18, 2024 2:33 pm I got a 1974 VW Beetle on my 17th birthday (Parents gave £500, I contributed the rest from an insurance payout after being run over the previous year), which was in November 1994, making the car precisely 20 years old. That felt like an old, rusty, classic car.

My first car was a Mk2 Escort which was 12yrs old when I got it - less than 6 months in I discovered the main front-to-rear chassis rails were completely rusted through (on both sides). Had to scrap the whole car. It seemed mad at the time, but would be totally unthinkable now.

Weirdly Ive never had to scrap a car.

We did however sarap my nieces car a few weeks ago however. Toyota Aygo. Rotten rear subframe connection points. My other Niece had a KA that was completely shot as well. It got scrapped.

Got a bank statement today and noticed my road tax was £600. Is this about normal around these parts or am I being victimised!

It’s the same if not more for our ML, I just ignore it.

Dave!

Evora is at that level too.

E-Tron is still £zero but not for long.....