OV9

V8Granite wrote: Mon Dec 02, 2024 10:42 pm It will 100% put debris in the oil passages, the problem is it uses a bit of oil naturally, which then gets topped up with the wrong oil but right spec and damage happens.

I don't buy that - it's not the owner's fault if a top-up of oil to the right spec causes the wet belt to fail. And I doubt most owners top up between services anyway.

Yeah the early ones were failing at pretty low mileages which you’d assume is within full service history and probably had no oil top ups.
I think Ford America are replacing out of warranty engines with full service history for free under goodwill, but as usual in Europe people get shafted!

Mercedes had a huge issue with chain sprockets.

Audi had issues with the chain tensioner on 3.0 tdis

Jaguar have big issues with chains, pistons, injectors, everything

Ford had the ecoboost overheating issue.

The engine in the DS3 and I think the Mini kills the oil pressure regulator killing engines.

Lots of engines have issues, so if an issue is replacing a wet belt which is serviceable anyway, I’d class that as not too bad a problem to know about. The Merc chain job was pretty very complex with how the engine was timed with no timing marks and on the Audi the engine has to come out.

I bought my ML knowing my valve body on the gearbox would give up the ghost at some point and that’s more expensive than a belt replacement and sump clean.

Dave!

V8Granite wrote: Tue Dec 03, 2024 2:09 pm Lots of engines have issues, so if an issue is replacing a wet belt which is serviceable anyway, I’d class that as not too bad a problem to know about.

Two things here:
The belt is failing prematurely, and shedding particles which block oilways even before it fails. It's not down to user error as you suggest.
Nobody is willing to change a wet belt. So replacing it isn't a simple service part.

It's a shit design and it's not possible for Ford to fix by replacing with an updated part, as with Merc's sprockets, Audi's tensioner etc. And none of the comparisons you mention is failing at 50k miles of normal use.

@Ascender

GG. wrote: Mon Dec 02, 2024 5:12 pm So the Smart is throwing a succession of wobblers.

First the speedo is malfunctioning and needs to go back to Smart for investigation and now the EML is on and flashing with the engine running poorly and smelling of fuel. I expect maybe an O2 sensor but could be something worse.

I was going to say that its ironic the Japanese part of the whole contraption is causing an issue (thinking that the 3Cyl was Mitsubishi sourced like on the earlier cars) but it seems the 2016 and on cars have a Renault engine... which makes a lot more sense.

So apparently it is the VVT solenoid that needs replacing on the smart and also the plugs (all three of them) at a cost of c. £400 inc labour. Annoying as I expect I'll get a bill for the same to fix the speedo, so with normal servicing it'll end up costing £1,500 this year. May be time to move it on to pastures new...

IanF wrote: Tue Dec 03, 2024 4:46 pm @Ascender

You wouldn’t know it was wrapped! Until you look in the door shuts etc.

GG. wrote: Tue Dec 03, 2024 5:31 pm

GG. wrote: Mon Dec 02, 2024 5:12 pm So the Smart is throwing a succession of wobblers.

First the speedo is malfunctioning and needs to go back to Smart for investigation and now the EML is on and flashing with the engine running poorly and smelling of fuel. I expect maybe an O2 sensor but could be something worse.

I was going to say that its ironic the Japanese part of the whole contraption is causing an issue (thinking that the 3Cyl was Mitsubishi sourced like on the earlier cars) but it seems the 2016 and on cars have a Renault engine... which makes a lot more sense.

So apparently it is the VVT solenoid that needs replacing on the smart and also the plugs (all three of them) at a cost of c. £400 inc labour. Annoying as I expect I'll get a bill for the same to fix the speedo, so with normal servicing it'll end up costing £1,500 this year. May be time to move it on to pastures new...

Jobbo wrote: Tue Dec 03, 2024 3:54 pm

V8Granite wrote: Tue Dec 03, 2024 2:09 pm Lots of engines have issues, so if an issue is replacing a wet belt which is serviceable anyway, I’d class that as not too bad a problem to know about.

Two things here:
The belt is failing prematurely, and shedding particles which block oilways even before it fails. It's not down to user error as you suggest.
Nobody is willing to change a wet belt. So replacing it isn't a simple service part.

It's a shit design and it's not possible for Ford to fix by replacing with an updated part, as with Merc's sprockets, Audi's tensioner etc. And none of the comparisons you mention is failing at 50k miles of normal use.

Of course people are willing to change a wet belt, I could get quotes from 10 garages today.

It’s a service item which has issues, I know what happens on test beds and I development areas, they haven’t given it enough leeway for how the engines are used in the field and are paying the price. I’d put money on very little field testing and too much modelling and testbed only work. As I look after my own stuff I’d have zero worry about a failure anymore than any other engine.

Dave!

V8Granite wrote: Wed Dec 04, 2024 7:45 am Of course people are willing to change a wet belt, I could get quotes from 10 garages today.

I'm not sure you've tried. It seems many garages know they're a ticking time bomb and they'll get the blame if it fails later due to bits of belt already in the oilways, for example.

We can have a different opinion but I know my backstreet garage are happy to do them and they really aren’t hard to do.

I’d rather have a wet belt than an engine with a single row chain.

Dave!

Jobbo wrote: Wed Dec 04, 2024 8:18 am

V8Granite wrote: Wed Dec 04, 2024 7:45 am Of course people are willing to change a wet belt, I could get quotes from 10 garages today.

I'm not sure you've tried. It seems many garages know they're a ticking time bomb and they'll get the blame if it fails later due to bits of belt already in the oilways, for example.

My mates transit engine seized 200 miles after a main dealer had done a wet belt change on it, he's currently battling them to get a replacement as they claim its nothing to do with them.

The engine had so much silicon sealer on the flanges it looked like someone was trying to fit a bathroom.

dan wrote: Wed Dec 04, 2024 11:06 am

Jobbo wrote: Wed Dec 04, 2024 8:18 am

V8Granite wrote: Wed Dec 04, 2024 7:45 am Of course people are willing to change a wet belt, I could get quotes from 10 garages today.

I'm not sure you've tried. It seems many garages know they're a ticking time bomb and they'll get the blame if it fails later due to bits of belt already in the oilways, for example.

My mates transit engine seized 200 miles after a main dealer had done a wet belt change on it, he's currently battling them to get a replacement as they claim its nothing to do with them.

The engine had so much silicon sealer on the flanges it looked like someone was trying to fit a bathroom.

Shouldn't laugh though - that is a shit situation.

It’s because the dumps are sealed on and they would have mangled the flange getting it off. I don’t think the dealership have much of a case there

I think the timing cover is the same.

Dave!

V8Granite wrote: Wed Dec 04, 2024 12:22 pm mangled the flange

Fnar fnar, hyuk hyuk.

When I was going round the local garages to ask for a cambelt change on my Mito, one told me to take it to Alfa, another didn't seem interested and the final one referred me to a cambelt specialist. I can't see anyone here wanting to do a wetbelt. I think too many places have been stung on stuff like that, mess up the timing a bit or miss something and the engine is scrap etc. They all want to do easy routine servicing, in and out the door in an hour type jobs.

Mito Man wrote: Wed Dec 04, 2024 3:01 pm When I was going round the local garages to ask for a cambelt change on my Mito, one told me to take it to Alfa, another didn't seem interested and the final one referred me to a cambelt specialist. I can't see anyone here wanting to do a wetbelt. I think too many places have been stung on stuff like that, mess up the timing a bit or miss something and the engine is scrap etc. They all want to do easy routine servicing, in and out the door in an hour type jobs.

It’s far more likely a lot of garages have basic technicians in and not mechanics.

I mean it’s surprising how many engineers I meet around the world who can’t even use a DTI gauge properly.

Dave!

Mito Man wrote: Wed Dec 04, 2024 3:01 pm When I was going round the local garages to ask for a cambelt change on my Mito, one told me to take it to Alfa, another didn't seem interested and the final one referred me to a cambelt specialist. I can't see anyone here wanting to do a wetbelt. I think too many places have been stung on stuff like that, mess up the timing a bit or miss something and the engine is scrap etc. They all want to do easy routine servicing, in and out the door in an hour type jobs.

Very much my experience too - if its something fiddly local garages often don't want to know.

Oh the speedo is a Renault unit and we're only a Mercedes specialist (despite being happy to service the Renault engine) so best take it back to Smart

The whole situation is exacerbated by the fact that so much needs coding to the vehicle on new(ish) cars.

GG. wrote: Wed Dec 04, 2024 3:57 pm

Mito Man wrote: Wed Dec 04, 2024 3:01 pm When I was going round the local garages to ask for a cambelt change on my Mito, one told me to take it to Alfa, another didn't seem interested and the final one referred me to a cambelt specialist. I can't see anyone here wanting to do a wetbelt. I think too many places have been stung on stuff like that, mess up the timing a bit or miss something and the engine is scrap etc. They all want to do easy routine servicing, in and out the door in an hour type jobs.

Very much my experience too - if its something fiddly local garages often don't want to know.

Oh the speedo is a Renault unit and we're only a Mercedes specialist (despite being happy to service the Renault engine) so best take it back to Smart

The whole situation is exacerbated by the fact that so much needs coding to the vehicle on new(ish) cars.

The garage that just did the alternator on our X5 didn't want to do the valve cover gasket that's leaking onto it because of the vanos solenoid in the casing, so now I've got oil dripping onto my new alternator...They're a nice bunch of guys and I'll continue to use them as they price fairly and do a decent job of the stuff that they want to do, but it's annoying that they won't go the extra mile on the other tasks that they don't like doing.

I guess I'll try and find time to do it myself over Christmas!

I've bought some powerflex coffin arms for the ageing boxster. Need fitting.

Been offered my mates 2014 golf r 500 bhp for a decent 4 figure price. Tempting.