OV9

In case no-one has seen it, TM is addressing the press at 5pm outside number 10.

Simon wrote: Thu Nov 15, 2018 4:10 pm In case no-one has seen it, TM is addressing the press at 5pm outside number 10.

Hadn't seen that, cheers.

Jobbo wrote: Thu Nov 15, 2018 3:44 pm

GG. wrote: Thu Nov 15, 2018 2:13 pm
It isn't really a viable option Carlos, no. It really only works if the following happens:

1) the ECJ case concludes we can unilaterally revoke Article 50, OR the EU27 agree to us doing so; and
2) Parliament votes to have another referendum to determine whether we should revoke Article 50 (to give them the political mandate to do so)... but which they don't have time to arrange before March... OR they decide to revoke without doing so (which even the "People's Vote" proponents aren't advocating).

So, for perhaps the only time in my life I agree with Guy Verhofstadt on that point.

There is time for another referendum, notwithstanding that there isn't a need for one. However, I can see it still happening, ridiculous notion though a second referendum is, to give MPs some justification for voting to stay in the EU.

Point 1 will be covered off within the next couple of weeks so that's disposed of long before any second referendum would be held.

I was going off commentary that said that there was insufficient time before March to pass the required statutory instruments (obviously you need to pass law for a referendum unlike a snap election for which the mechanics are already in place), plus campaigning plus organising the mechanics of holding the ballot... and that was probably 2 months ago so I really don't think there is time now when we're halfway through November.

Realistically parliament would never not hold another referendum if it was going down the route of revoke Article 50 - you've seen the power the original referendum had re democratic legitimacy, hence why the decision to exercise article 50 was passed through a remain dominated parliament.

There's months of arguing just in choosing the wording of a 2nd referendum. Sky News hav published a poll where they asked people to choose between No Brexit, the Deal or No Deal. Well, that's patently splitting the Leave vote so is immediately unfair. There needs to be 2 questions: 1. Stay or Leave? and 2. Between the 2 Leave options would you want Deal or No Deal? It's the only way to make it fair.

I've seen the lack of any binding power of the first referendum which led to this - I guess any second referendum will have the ballot paper heavily caveated to make clear all the important points like it not being legally binding etc

There isn't a lot of time, admittedly - but legally there is enough. However the EU are almost certainly going to permit an extension to the Art.50 timetable if the outcome is going to be better for them, as the UK staying in the EU would be. So it's not a practical issue. Whereas a Tory party leadership challenge or general election (we've managed both of those once already since the referendum) would be utterly futile since the whole Brexit fiasco isn't a party political issue.

On the news just now a talking head just said 'why not ask the public if they accept TM's deal'. Simple as that, so it doesn't undermine ref 1. That said, I'm all for ref 2. If we overturn Brexit it has to be with a referendum, rather than just MPs voting against it themselves.

After the 25 minute delay I was sure she was coming in to resign but no, she's campaigning for this dead duck deal. Truly, after the nuclear holocaust there shall only be cockroaches and Theresa May left standing...

Don't complain - if she's successful, you'll have seen us leave the EU and that's what you voted for.

Thought it was a good speech/q&a. She looked very much in control and gave good answers.

I’m impressed with her fortitude and resilience tbh, she had very little support today and managed to control all the braying MPs (). With JC unable to even face the right way, I imagine TM will survive a challenge from within, because the alternative is to potentially gift Labour the government. Plus who would want to be PM now other than a hardline Leave supporter? All that person would have to do is wait until March and then exit with no deal. And I don’t see a Remain supporter winning enough votes to be PM with the ERG et al leading the vote.

I wish they'd have a new referendum without any campaigning and bullshit peddling... because let's face it, nobody can or could previously make any promises on what leaving would look like, and we know what being in the present EU looks like.

They should just ban anyone discussing it before the vote.

Impressive, a press conference to say absolutely nothing!

duncs500 wrote: Thu Nov 15, 2018 6:09 pm we know what being in the present EU looks like.

Which of course is not what was on offer as the EU wasn't promising to stay exactly as it is - indeed it was and is promising more centralisation and, as you've seen recently, EU armies and all that federalist bullshit which we don't want to be a part of.

They do indeed have to do this in order to save the Euro long term. The shame is that they haven't already taken the opportunity to move to a two speed Europe, one centralised and constructed around the Eurozone members and a peripheral trading block - that may well have provided us with a more palatable option to pivot towards rather than either full in or full out.

TM is a troll. Her opening lines were definitely chosen to make it sound like she was about to resign.

NotoriousREV wrote: Thu Nov 15, 2018 7:21 pm TM is a troll. Her opening lines were definitely chosen to make it sound like she was about to resign.

This. So much this!

I confess, I thought that was a classic 'resignation opener'.

GG. wrote: Thu Nov 15, 2018 6:46 pm

duncs500 wrote: Thu Nov 15, 2018 6:09 pm we know what being in the present EU looks like.

Which of course is not what was on offer as the EU wasn't promising to stay exactly as it is - indeed it was and is promising more centralisation and, as you've seen recently, EU armies and all that federalist bullshit which we don't want to be a part of.

Which 'we' are you referring to?

Given the shambles that is politics and politicians in this country it might be about time we let someone else have a go at running it!

My own view is that at some point the people of the world will need to be more united as a species if we are going to survive. Continuing to be insular is backward thinking in an ever shrinking world in which borders are becoming less and less relevant.

Even Steve Bannon is trying to set up a global Nationalist movement.

duncs500 wrote: Fri Nov 16, 2018 6:48 am

GG. wrote: Thu Nov 15, 2018 6:46 pm

duncs500 wrote: Thu Nov 15, 2018 6:09 pm we know what being in the present EU looks like.

Which of course is not what was on offer as the EU wasn't promising to stay exactly as it is - indeed it was and is promising more centralisation and, as you've seen recently, EU armies and all that federalist bullshit which we don't want to be a part of.

Which 'we' are you referring to?

GG, people with Union Jack tattoos and people who think “so, where are you really from?” is an acceptable conversation starter when you meet a brown person.

ZedLeg wrote: Fri Nov 16, 2018 8:19 am

duncs500 wrote: Fri Nov 16, 2018 6:48 am

GG. wrote: Thu Nov 15, 2018 6:46 pm

Which of course is not what was on offer as the EU wasn't promising to stay exactly as it is - indeed it was and is promising more centralisation and, as you've seen recently, EU armies and all that federalist bullshit which we don't want to be a part of.

Which 'we' are you referring to?

GG, people with Union Jack tattoos and people who think “so, where are you really from?” is an acceptable conversation starter when you meet a brown person.

How many illegal wars has the EU sent troops in to? I have zero confidence in Westminster making the right decision. This whole fiasco has clearly illustrated what an absolute clusterfuck our democracy is. You can lie and cheat and steal and happily remain in a well paid position of power. I mean Jeremy Hunt has been mooted as a possible PM along with Gove, how is that the best we have??