OV9

For the F2 clip scenario there wouldn’t be a delay above a few mph, because that super sharp linear rack is only for very slow speed parking manoeuvres and pulling U turns.

Rich B wrote: Wed Jun 05, 2024 9:36 pm The input and output on a normal steering system are connected with a big metal pole which means there's no lag.

I'm just going to jump in here and say that there is *some* lag in a traditional hydraulic PAS system.

The way a hydraulic PAS rack works is that there's a torsional / rotary valve between the input and the rack itself. You turn the steering wheel, the resistance of the wheels to being turned creates a slight difference between input & output, and that difference regulates the flow of hydraulic fluid. Once the rack catches up with the input, no more fluid flows. This is why the rack doesn't fly off to full lock when you're driving in a straight line.



https://auto.howstuffworks.com/steering4.htm

In a non-PAS system you're quite right - it's absolutely direct. Electronic PAS systems might be different again. Not sure. Maybe they use a strain gauge.

Mito is still wrong though.

Sundayjumper wrote: Wed Jun 05, 2024 9:30 pm This might actually be the stupidest argument we've had on here. Which is a real achievement.

I second this emulsion.

Mito - you claim it isn’t lag, and then explain why the lag is occurring. I am hoping you can see a teeny flaw in this position.

It's actually really simple.

Tesla under-specified the motor that turns the wheels (among many, many other things on the ClusterFuck), leading them to look silly when lock to lock is quickly applied at a standstill as it clearly, obviously lags behind user input.

But it's OK because they have an army of people online who'll argue black is white (my autopilot speared my car into the ditch. still love the car though, safest car ever!) for them, saving them the time and money of

A: Having to develop systems properly
B: Having to fight expensive PR battles.

Sundayjumper wrote: Wed Jun 05, 2024 10:14 pm

Rich B wrote: Wed Jun 05, 2024 9:36 pm The input and output on a normal steering system are connected with a big metal pole which means there's no lag.

I'm just going to jump in here and say that there is *some* lag in a traditional hydraulic PAS system.

The way a hydraulic PAS rack works is that there's a torsional / rotary valve between the input and the rack itself. You turn the steering wheel, the resistance of the wheels to being turned creates a slight difference between input & output, and that difference regulates the flow of hydraulic fluid. Once the rack catches up with the input, no more fluid flows. This is why the rack doesn't fly off to full lock when you're driving in a straight line.



https://auto.howstuffworks.com/steering4.htm

ooh, interesting - I didn't realise that was the case!

This video I posted on the previous page shows that it works just fine, when something breaks and only one wheel actually turns

I assumed it was 2 motors with a single shaft going to both wheels but apparently it's 2 independent steering motors with the left and right wheels totally independent of each other and some software keeping it all synchronised
I thought they said it had redundancy built in with the dual steering motors but if the left and right are totally independent then it's just more lies?

If Elon Musk said it, then it was a lie.

It's supposed to have seperate redundancy between the brakes and steering power systems, but they seem to fail at the same time a lot, too.

Despite that not being a thing that should happen if they have, you know, their own redundant systems...

Beany wrote: Wed Jun 05, 2024 11:13 pm If Elon Musk said it, then it was a lie.

It's supposed to have seperate redundancy between the brakes and steering power systems, but they seem to fail at the same time a lot, too.

Despite that not being a thing that should happen if they have, you know, their own redundant systems...

Oleopneumatic Citroens used to be good at that!

jamcg wrote: Wed Jun 05, 2024 10:47 pm This video I posted on the previous page shows that it works just fine, when something breaks and only one wheel actually turns

I assumed that was just a broken track rod end which can happen to pretty much anything when pushed beyond expected normal use. That one has obviously been pretty messed with. A separate steering motor for each wheel with no physical link between them sounds mental…

Ok the comments are bollocks, Googled the steering system and this Munro video shows that there's 2 motors both connected together for redundancy

As Harry says probably a broken track rod end.

There are 2 large footprint rubber tyres on the floor and it’s not moving, I would put money on the Tesla system being far better than anyone’s cars on here unless they have arms like Geoff Capes and have a totally mechanical system.

You will see far more flex in linkages, bushes flexing than this Cubertruck. When rolling I bet it’s even quicker still.

I still hate the cyber truck but at least hate productively about real issues like it’s shit mess and stupid load bed.

Dave!

V8Granite wrote: Thu Jun 06, 2024 7:42 am There are 2 large footprint rubber tyres on the floor and it’s not moving, I would put money on the Tesla system being far better than anyone’s cars on here unless they have arms like Geoff Capes and have a totally mechanical system.

You will see far more flex in linkages, bushes flexing than this Cubertruck. When rolling I bet it’s even quicker still.

I still hate the cyber truck but at least hate productively about real issues like it’s shit mess and stupid load bed.

Dave!

does the cybertruck have no linkages or bushes then?

I bet if it has individual motors there would be far less than on a regular car. It has no steering column or hydraulic switching (if that’s the right term) to do also.

If you have ever seen a car on a shaker plate you will see how much deflection there is in the steering.

Plus tyre deflection.

Dave!

Most cars have a rubber coupling in the steering column. If you were strong enough to sling your steering wheel from lock to lock that fast it would likely rip it to shreds, then you’d have your own Bluetooth steering setup

V8Granite wrote: Thu Jun 06, 2024 8:02 am I bet if it has individual motors there would be far less than on a regular car. It has no steering column or hydraulic switching (if that’s the right term) to do also.

If you have ever seen a car on a shaker plate you will see how much deflection there is in the steering.

Plus tyre deflection.

Dave!

Im sure all this is true. The cyber truck one still has lag though, which was the point of the thread!

People are saying it like it’s a problem though, which it isn’t, it just doesn’t defy the laws of physics.

Dave!

V8Granite wrote: Thu Jun 06, 2024 10:34 am People are saying it like it’s a problem though, which it isn’t

Why is lag not

V8Granite wrote: Thu Jun 06, 2024 10:34 am People are saying it like it’s a problem though, which it isn’t, it just doesn’t defy the laws of physics.

Dave!

all I was saying is that it has lag. mito was saying there wasn't.

a problem?