Trump

[Swervin_Mervin]

I think the problem is that people think there are sides.

Trans people just want to live their lives and have no interest in being a political beating stick.

It’s the anti trans pressure groups that are keeping this bubbling over.

You don’t think the extreme left have had a part to play in this? Demanding trans rights regarding bathrooms, for example, at the expense of women’s rights?

As Duncs has already said, baby steps were needed for change but they went all in aggressive and it’s fucked it up for everyone. So now people have got pissed off, voted without a level head and you now get people like Trump in charge.

No, because they haven’t

As I said earlier, trans women have used the facilities that match their gender forever. It’s only become an issue over the last 10 years.

There’s been a concerted effort to demonise trans people and it’s apparently working.

I suspect there's some truth to that. But could also be as simple as, because there are more trans-women using the facilities, it's simply increased the number of potential conflict events to a point where we're now hearing about them.

[ZedLeg]

Still an education issue rather than a trans people should go away issue then imo.

[Rich B]

Do you think big and strong women shouldn’t be allowed to play sport with smaller women?

I’m not bothered how people live their lives and even if i was, i have no skin in the game so my opinion wouldn’t be particularly valuable. I’m happy to call anyone whatever makes them comfortable and accept it.

But the fact you can’t see any issue with that pretty much means we’ll still never see eye to eye!

[ZedLeg]

I note you didn’t answer the question

[240PP]

Do you think big and strong women shouldn’t be allowed to play sport with smaller women?

As long as it’s a sport without weight classes,

Would you be happy to remove the gender classes from the Olympics, rendering every single biological female’s efforts completely futile in any sport that has a physical element, which is most of them?

In sport biological men > biological women.

[ZedLeg]

That’s not remotely the same question.

The fact is that any trans women who wants to compete in a sport is almost certainly going to have their t count checked. If it’s too high they can’t play.

In most cases trans women have lower t than cis women because the hormone treatments are so efficient at eradicating it from their system.

[240PP]

It’s not just a question of testosterone levels. It’s a range of things, bone structure being one.

[ZedLeg]

Lets not forget where this leads. With women sports people being harassed at the olympics for being good at what they do.

Imane Khelif and lin yu ting can attest to that.

[ZedLeg]

It’s not just a question of testosterone levels. It’s a range of things, bone structure being one.

Conveniently also drastically affected by oestrogen treatments.

[Rich B]

I note you didn’t answer the question

Because it’s a daft question!

There is a physical difference between men and women. That physical difference doesn’t vanish when you transition.

The fact that Thomas was ranked 554 as a man and 36 as a woman surely highlights this difference.

i personally think that one case has set trans right back massively.

[ZedLeg]

That 554 ranking was from when she was transitioning. It shows the clear effect of hormones on her system.

Before that she was on course for the olympics as a man.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lia_Thomas

[240PP]

There was a Kent cricketer that had a batting average of 15 in the men’s. She transitioned and has now upped that to 124 in the women’s league. She must have just really practised a lot.

[V8Granite]

It’s not just a question of testosterone levels. It’s a range of things, bone structure being one.

With a T level of 0.95 nmol/L I was still comfortably able to do 200kg deadlifts for reps. My low level vastly increased my recovery period though to a full week.

0.95 is nearly half what is allowed to compete in women’s sports, it’s a joke and a slap in the face to women who don’t use performance enhancing drugs. It also removes the huge advantages of high T levels through the years your body is growing.

Dave!

[ZedLeg]

FWIW I was never expecting anyone to fully agree with me, I know I’m coming from a much different place than most if not all of you. Some of the responses have been pretty eye opening from a group I generally think of as rational and reasonable though.

I haven’t missed these stupid arguments since I got kicked from ph tbh

[Sundayjumper]

And getting back on topic…

This seems to answer the Canada thing:

IMG_3561.jpeg (105.37 KiB) Viewed 3185 times

[ZedLeg]

Just to tie it all together . Janice Turner has been getting some heat for this blatantly absurd headline. She then claimed it was editorial that decided to run with that and it didn’t match the content.

Wouldn’t elaborate on that though

IMG_2566.jpeg (324.96 KiB) Viewed 3162 times

[Nefarious]

May I just opine that the whole “trans debate” has been totally manufactured to be an unsquarable circle. It plays on the absolutist nature of the concept of inclusion, the exact semantics of the words “sex” and “gender”, and a degree of remaining homophobia in otherwise moderate middle-grounders. Russian whistleblowers have already revealed that pumping out trans-related stuff on social media was a core strategy for sewing the seeds of division (also see: cat litter trays in schools!). It’s an issue that has never and will never touch 99.99999% of people’s lives, and yet half the country are getting all frothy about it. Hell, I’ve got a transgender foster son and it doesn’t even touch *my* life! I am yet to see or hear about a real life issue that there isn't a common-sense answer for.

To engage in the nonsense debate is to chip away at the knowledge that there is more that unites us than divides us.

[ZedLeg]

I agree nef and since I have left the more aggro areas of internet I’ve tried to stay clear of arguing with randos about it.

This prevailing attitude that it’s minorities fault that they’re being attacked because they were too pushy in not wanting to be discriminated against is fucking disgusting though.

[Gavster]

Just to tie it all together . Janice Turner has been getting some heat for this blatantly absurd headline. She then claimed it was editorial that decided to run with that and it didn’t match the content.

Wouldn’t elaborate on that though

IMG_2566.jpeg

It's standard practice in the press for editors, not journalists, to choose titles and headlines. The journo will usually put forward a title, however, what gets printed is not chosen by the writer, nor do they have control over it. So definitely judge the article by the content, not the title.

[ZedLeg]

I know Gav but she’s a very vocal transphobe so I’m not betting on the content being that great tbh.

At the time it was paywalled so I couldn’t read it. I think there are scans of the print version going around now. I’ll see if I can find one.