OV9

GG. wrote: Wed Nov 27, 2019 1:13 pm
Unfortunately it's all just the politics of envy, little else.

Hardly, no one has said you shouldn't use private schools. Having to pay VAT on the fees isn't a real problem though.

Of course it is if you have two kids there and earn 50 grand a year. Where does 400 extra a month magically come from?

GG. wrote: Wed Nov 27, 2019 1:13 pm Unfortunately it's all just the politics of envy, little else.

It's definitely not the politics of envy. That's facile bullshit. It's the politics of thinking about other people than just myself.

The comments above about 'my heart bleeds' is the language and emotion of envy. Its as simple as that.

GG. wrote: Wed Nov 27, 2019 1:17 pm Of course it is if you have two kids there and earn 50 grand a year. Where does 400 extra a month magically come from?

Someone earning £50k a year is taking home £3000 a month. They're probably not spending £2000 per month on school fees.

GG. wrote: Wed Nov 27, 2019 1:18 pm The comments above about 'my heart bleeds' is the language and emotion of envy. Its as simple as that.

How can I be envious of a lifestyle to which I have full access myself?

GG. wrote: Wed Nov 27, 2019 1:13 pm Yep - I took my son for swimming lessons at a local private school (not the one my son attends) last Saturday as it is open to all at the weekend.

Unfortunately it's all just the politics of envy, little else.

Envy, how? I pay for private swimming lessons for my children. They use a pool at a private school nearby, I don't consider that charity. It is my choice and I don't see why that should give me an advantage over others that can't afford it.

NotoriousREV wrote: Wed Nov 27, 2019 1:02 pm Those poor kids, being forced to go into state education. Maybe we could use the additional tax raised from the VAT to improve the state schools?

Angela Raynar would do an awesome job of improving state education I'm sure.

Seriously, have you cunts looked at the state of the shadow cabinet?

I've used private schooling for my kids for some of their education and am hardly a high earner. A lot of very well performing public schools are struggling financially as it is. Taking away charitable status would ruin them.

But of course, that's the socialist dream. Lower standards for everyone, not just the poorest.

It's a classic tory tactic though. There's no valid criticism, it's either envy politics or hypocritical champagne socialism.

Mate at work (earns a lot less than 80k) sends his daughter to private school because the state schools in his area, in his view, are shit.

You never really know whether it's truth of course, and in actual fact my sister-in-law works at one of the schools in question and tries to run a good ship but even so, that's his reasoning. It's not a choice, it's a lack of options (in his view).

Just used the Labour tax calc thing for what I would pay extra at 45%. It's another 60 quid a month or something, so not too bad I suppose.

DeskJockey wrote: Wed Nov 27, 2019 1:14 pm

GG. wrote: Wed Nov 27, 2019 1:10 pm Businesses which reduce your need for state spending and employ lots of people, yes.

It's exactly the same as private healthcare - also exempt from VAT - though I'm sure of course that would probably go in the long run too in our new socialist nirvana.

I'd rather the teachers work in the public sector schools for the good of all than the few. Don't forget they also get funding from government.

Quite a few would rather quit teaching altogether than work in the state sector - why would you when governance is so poor, with no support from your EA, and with so many parents who see the teachers as a problem. The state sector is riddled with major issues and it largely comes down to piss poor governance, not necessarily a shortfall of funding.

As per pretty much ALL public sectors.

Swervin_Mervin wrote: Wed Nov 27, 2019 1:21 pm

DeskJockey wrote: Wed Nov 27, 2019 1:14 pm

GG. wrote: Wed Nov 27, 2019 1:10 pm Businesses which reduce your need for state spending and employ lots of people, yes.

It's exactly the same as private healthcare - also exempt from VAT - though I'm sure of course that would probably go in the long run too in our new socialist nirvana.

I'd rather the teachers work in the public sector schools for the good of all than the few. Don't forget they also get funding from government.

Quite a few would rather quit teaching altogether than work in the state sector - why would you when governance is so poor, with no support from your EA, and with so many parents who see the teachers as a problem. The state sector is riddled with major issues and it largely comes down to piss poor governance, not necessarily a shortfall of funding.

As per pretty much ALL public sectors.

All of this (wife works in a school, as I think I've said before). Edit to add - And the only contract I ever walked out of, to avoid punching the consultant prick in charge, was the NHS.

Swervin_Mervin wrote: Wed Nov 27, 2019 1:21 pm

DeskJockey wrote: Wed Nov 27, 2019 1:14 pm

GG. wrote: Wed Nov 27, 2019 1:10 pm Businesses which reduce your need for state spending and employ lots of people, yes.

It's exactly the same as private healthcare - also exempt from VAT - though I'm sure of course that would probably go in the long run too in our new socialist nirvana.

I'd rather the teachers work in the public sector schools for the good of all than the few. Don't forget they also get funding from government.

Quite a few would rather quit teaching altogether than work in the state sector - why would you when governance is so poor, with no support from your EA, and with so many parents who see the teachers as a problem. The state sector is riddled with major issues and it largely comes down to piss poor governance, not necessarily a shortfall of funding.

As per pretty much ALL public sectors.

Your regular reminder that the Conservatives have been in charge of all of this for the past 9 years...

GG. wrote: Wed Nov 27, 2019 1:15 pm But why should you force them to? That's their choice. You can't coerce people only to work in the state sector.

In historical terms, all this stuff is extremely hard left politics - the kind of which is not common barely anywhere in the developed world.

Who said anything about forcing them? I stated my personal preference. If they want to do something else, that's their choice.

This isn't hard left at all. It is common sense thinking to help the country as a whole, rather than widening the gap between elite and rest.

DeskJockey wrote: Wed Nov 27, 2019 1:23 pm

GG. wrote: Wed Nov 27, 2019 1:15 pm But why should you force them to? That's their choice. You can't coerce people only to work in the state sector.

In historical terms, all this stuff is extremely hard left politics - the kind of which is not common barely anywhere in the developed world.

Who said anything about forcing them? I stated my personal preference. If they want to do something else, that's their choice.

This isn't hard left at all. It is common sense thinking to help the country as a whole, rather than widening the gap between elite and rest.

I’m sure all those poor inner city kids with academic bursaries are happy to know they’re the elite.

NotoriousREV wrote: Wed Nov 27, 2019 1:22 pm

Swervin_Mervin wrote: Wed Nov 27, 2019 1:21 pm

DeskJockey wrote: Wed Nov 27, 2019 1:14 pm

I'd rather the teachers work in the public sector schools for the good of all than the few. Don't forget they also get funding from government.

Quite a few would rather quit teaching altogether than work in the state sector - why would you when governance is so poor, with no support from your EA, and with so many parents who see the teachers as a problem. The state sector is riddled with major issues and it largely comes down to piss poor governance, not necessarily a shortfall of funding.

As per pretty much ALL public sectors.

Your regular reminder that the Conservatives have been in charge of all of this for the past 9 years...

You are quite correct, of course. However, it's been fvcked for decades, as is the NHS. Our political system engenders no desire for incoming parties to grasp the pissy nettle and look to fundamental reform, because of short-termism. Throwing more money at it will not achieve anything.

Swervin_Mervin wrote: Wed Nov 27, 2019 1:21 pm

DeskJockey wrote: Wed Nov 27, 2019 1:14 pm

GG. wrote: Wed Nov 27, 2019 1:10 pm Businesses which reduce your need for state spending and employ lots of people, yes.

It's exactly the same as private healthcare - also exempt from VAT - though I'm sure of course that would probably go in the long run too in our new socialist nirvana.

I'd rather the teachers work in the public sector schools for the good of all than the few. Don't forget they also get funding from government.

Quite a few would rather quit teaching altogether than work in the state sector - why would you when governance is so poor, with no support from your EA, and with so many parents who see the teachers as a problem. The state sector is riddled with major issues and it largely comes down to piss poor governance, not necessarily a shortfall of funding.

As per pretty much ALL public sectors.

And the private sector is the panacea to all ills. Rubbish, utter rubbish.

Nobody is forcing them to work anywhere. And, if you want to improve things you need to fund them properly. Is the system perfect? No, never will be. But a near-decade of cuts and then being told you're shit doesn't exactly help, does it?

ShockDiamonds wrote: Wed Nov 27, 2019 1:20 pm Mate at work (earns a lot less than 80k) sends his daughter to private school because the state schools in his area, in his view, are shit

So let's improve education for all (and not as GG thinks make it worse for all, which is a moronic statement) so the schools aren't shit. It can't be done for free. We have to act like grown ups. If we want to be a successful country we need world-class education for all, world-class healthcare, social mobility and opportunities to work. We all benefit from those things, so they're worth paying for by everyone.

DeskJockey wrote: Wed Nov 27, 2019 1:26 pm

Swervin_Mervin wrote: Wed Nov 27, 2019 1:21 pm

DeskJockey wrote: Wed Nov 27, 2019 1:14 pm

I'd rather the teachers work in the public sector schools for the good of all than the few. Don't forget they also get funding from government.

Quite a few would rather quit teaching altogether than work in the state sector - why would you when governance is so poor, with no support from your EA, and with so many parents who see the teachers as a problem. The state sector is riddled with major issues and it largely comes down to piss poor governance, not necessarily a shortfall of funding.

As per pretty much ALL public sectors.

And the private sector is the panacea to all ills. Rubbish, utter rubbish.

Nobody is forcing them to work anywhere. And, if you want to improve things you need to fund them properly. Is the system perfect? No, never will be. But a near-decade of cuts and then being told you're shit doesn't exactly help, does it?

Where did I say that?

And see above regarding money. Money IS NOT the problem.

GG. wrote: Wed Nov 27, 2019 1:25 pm

DeskJockey wrote: Wed Nov 27, 2019 1:23 pm

GG. wrote: Wed Nov 27, 2019 1:15 pm But why should you force them to? That's their choice. You can't coerce people only to work in the state sector.

In historical terms, all this stuff is extremely hard left politics - the kind of which is not common barely anywhere in the developed world.

Who said anything about forcing them? I stated my personal preference. If they want to do something else, that's their choice.

This isn't hard left at all. It is common sense thinking to help the country as a whole, rather than widening the gap between elite and rest.

I’m sure all those poor inner city kids with academic bursaries are happy to know they’re the elite.

They know full well that they're among the elite, they get reminded every day. How many of the 650,000 kids in private education are "poor inner city kids with academic bursaries"? Wouldn't it be better to provide better education to all "poor inner city kids" rather than a lucky handful?