OV9

Maybe Lawrence figures Vettel won't show his son up to be as shite as Perez does!

integrale_evo wrote: Thu Jul 16, 2020 9:30 am I’m not sure it’s like that a whole race, but can understand it when they’re going balls to the wall in the last few laps wringing every drop they can out of it and risking blowing it up for a decent haul of points.

This AFAIK, it's just because they're squeezing every drop. They wouldn't be shifting modes and thrashing the engine like at for most of the race.

That was a one off scenario, they spotted the tow opportunities and the race engineer fed the data in. I don’t think they were expecting to pass both cars at first and when they did they quickly realised the next car up the road was going slow enough to be caught.

Normally in stuff like that the drivers are telling their race engineers to shut up and let them concentrate.

Each engine only has a limited number of Strat 7 and Strat 8 modes before it grenades so the driver isn’t allowed to use these unless instructed. Then the electrical boost system is also limited to a certain number of seconds and joules so in such scenarios there is no way for the driver to drive the fecking thing and calculate all this at the same time.

Also swapping Perez for Vettel would be very expensive for no particular race gains. Perez is backed by Carlos Slim and I expect Vettel would expect a healthy salary in exchange.

mik wrote: Thu Jul 16, 2020 11:36 am

V8Granite wrote: Thu Jul 16, 2020 9:09 am

Marv wrote: Mon Jul 13, 2020 9:52 pm

Fairly normal yeah.

It’s a bit of a shame imo.

Dave!

Pour quoi?

I think it should be the driver making the decisions, have a put board saying time to next driver or your own lap time etc.

That sounded too much and the engineer dictating when he used some of the cars features. It should be the skill and talent on the driver alone.

Dave

Rich B wrote: Thu Jul 16, 2020 10:35 am

Gavin wrote: Thu Jul 16, 2020 9:04 am I cannot see why they would take Vettel (apart from the cachet of a 4 times champ) over Perez, since blown floors disappeared, he has had very few top level performances, and they have been dwindling over the last few seasons.

Perez makes fewer mistakes and tends to get the most out of his car. I agree, if they were getting rid, it should be Stroll unless he pulls his socks up and gets closer to Perez, but with his dad owning the team that would be a surprise.

Perez has been in F1 forever and not really achieved anything. He’s a mid level driver, would probably be a decent 2nd driver.

I’d take Seb over him on driving ability, but if I was Seb I’d not be wanting to go to a mid-field team, it just sounds like the route to a disappointing end to a career.

Perez is a pretty solid points finisher. I doubt Vettel would bring in a significant number of points above what Perez currently does...certainly not enough to justify the expense (salary and crash repairs )

Marv wrote: Thu Jul 16, 2020 2:16 pm

Rich B wrote: Thu Jul 16, 2020 10:35 am

Gavin wrote: Thu Jul 16, 2020 9:04 am I cannot see why they would take Vettel (apart from the cachet of a 4 times champ) over Perez, since blown floors disappeared, he has had very few top level performances, and they have been dwindling over the last few seasons.

Perez makes fewer mistakes and tends to get the most out of his car. I agree, if they were getting rid, it should be Stroll unless he pulls his socks up and gets closer to Perez, but with his dad owning the team that would be a surprise.

Perez has been in F1 forever and not really achieved anything. He’s a mid level driver, would probably be a decent 2nd driver.

I’d take Seb over him on driving ability, but if I was Seb I’d not be wanting to go to a mid-field team, it just sounds like the route to a disappointing end to a career.

Perez is a pretty solid points finisher. I doubt Vettel would bring in a significant number of points above what Perez currently does...certainly not enough to justify the expense (salary and crash repairs )

pretty solid mid level. A handful of podiums I’m the last decade or however long he’s been doing it... who wants that from a number one driver!

Rich B wrote: Thu Jul 16, 2020 2:22 pm

Marv wrote: Thu Jul 16, 2020 2:16 pm

Rich B wrote: Thu Jul 16, 2020 10:35 am Perez has been in F1 forever and not really achieved anything. He’s a mid level driver, would probably be a decent 2nd driver.

I’d take Seb over him on driving ability, but if I was Seb I’d not be wanting to go to a mid-field team, it just sounds like the route to a disappointing end to a career.

Perez is a pretty solid points finisher. I doubt Vettel would bring in a significant number of points above what Perez currently does...certainly not enough to justify the expense (salary and crash repairs )

pretty solid mid level. A handful of podiums I’m the last decade or however long he’s been doing it... who wants that from a number one driver!

You think Vettel would score many more? Perez is also fairly reliable and if the chassis' not working can still eek the tyres out to score points. As Marv says, I just can't see Vettel being worth the additional expense or tantrums. Would be a pretty ignominious end for a 4x WDC as well.

V8Granite wrote: Thu Jul 16, 2020 12:54 pm

mik wrote: Thu Jul 16, 2020 11:36 am

V8Granite wrote: Thu Jul 16, 2020 9:09 am

It’s a bit of a shame imo.

Dave!

Pour quoi?

I think it should be the driver making the decisions, have a put board saying time to next driver or your own lap time etc.

That sounded too much and the engineer dictating when he used some of the cars features. It should be the skill and talent on the driver alone.

Dave

I can’t disagree but the cars would need to change so much and go against their increasing green credentials that it wouldn’t work.

One thing some people don’t realise is that all the drivers are driving to a set lap time for all of the race aside from when they’re trying to set a fastest lap or approaching another car to overtake.

Rich B wrote: Thu Jul 16, 2020 2:22 pm

Marv wrote: Thu Jul 16, 2020 2:16 pm

Rich B wrote: Thu Jul 16, 2020 10:35 am Perez has been in F1 forever and not really achieved anything. He’s a mid level driver, would probably be a decent 2nd driver.

I’d take Seb over him on driving ability, but if I was Seb I’d not be wanting to go to a mid-field team, it just sounds like the route to a disappointing end to a career.

Perez is a pretty solid points finisher. I doubt Vettel would bring in a significant number of points above what Perez currently does...certainly not enough to justify the expense (salary and crash repairs )

pretty solid mid level. A handful of podiums I’m the last decade or however long he’s been doing it... who wants that from a number one driver!

To score a podium in the past decade is pretty difficult Rich. Mercedes, RBR and Ferrari normally have them three positions to themselves. Then you have to beat the rest of the mid field.

Apart from a couple of seasons, he's most of the time outscored his team mates. He's not an exceptional driver, but as an offering for a mid field team, he brings in decent points and money.

I just don't think Vettel would offer substantially better value for money.

V8Granite wrote: Thu Jul 16, 2020 12:54 pm

mik wrote: Thu Jul 16, 2020 11:36 am

V8Granite wrote: Thu Jul 16, 2020 9:09 am

It’s a bit of a shame imo.

Dave!

Pour quoi?

I think it should be the driver making the decisions, have a put board saying time to next driver or your own lap time etc.

That sounded too much and the engineer dictating when he used some of the cars features. It should be the skill and talent on the driver alone.

Dave

You think it's easy to drive flat out whilst keeping open comms with the engineer and adjusting various settings throughout the lap? Looks to my clueless eyes like you probably have to have even more talent and skill these days to be at the front in F1, precisely because of having considerably more to manage.

Definitely not, the driver alone should decide when to use maximum power or when to deploy the overtake feature etc.

I want to see the fastest driver, whether it’s difficult or not means nothing, it’s the driver I want to see making decisions which can win or lose a race. Yes the team do the tactics etc but he was being told what to do corner by corner.

Dave!

Marv wrote: Thu Jul 16, 2020 4:01 pm

Rich B wrote: Thu Jul 16, 2020 2:22 pm

Marv wrote: Thu Jul 16, 2020 2:16 pm

Perez is a pretty solid points finisher. I doubt Vettel would bring in a significant number of points above what Perez currently does...certainly not enough to justify the expense (salary and crash repairs )

pretty solid mid level. A handful of podiums I’m the last decade or however long he’s been doing it... who wants that from a number one driver!

To score a podium in the past decade is pretty difficult Rich. Mercedes, RBR and Ferrari normally have them three positions to themselves. Then you have to beat the rest of the mid field.

Apart from a couple of seasons, he's most of the time outscored his team mates. He's not an exceptional driver, but as an offering for a mid field team, he brings in decent points and money.

I just don't think Vettel would offer substantially better value for money.

That sort of thinking is exactly what will keep them a mid-level team.

Whether or not SV is the right option, they know exactly where they’ll be if they carry on as they are - which definitely isn’t winning.

Rich B wrote: Thu Jul 16, 2020 5:57 pm

Marv wrote: Thu Jul 16, 2020 4:01 pm

Rich B wrote: Thu Jul 16, 2020 2:22 pm pretty solid mid level. A handful of podiums I’m the last decade or however long he’s been doing it... who wants that from a number one driver!

To score a podium in the past decade is pretty difficult Rich. Mercedes, RBR and Ferrari normally have them three positions to themselves. Then you have to beat the rest of the mid field.

Apart from a couple of seasons, he's most of the time outscored his team mates. He's not an exceptional driver, but as an offering for a mid field team, he brings in decent points and money.

I just don't think Vettel would offer substantially better value for money.

That sort of thinking is exactly what will keep them a mid-level team.

Whether or not SV is the right option, they know exactly where they’ll be if they carry on as they are - which definitely isn’t winning.

No it isn't. The other way of looking at it is they could blow their car development budget on a driver that offers nothing over another driver that brings in better revenue.. . now that's the kind of thinking that will take them from mid-level team to the back of the grid.

V8Granite wrote: Thu Jul 16, 2020 5:18 pm Definitely not, the driver alone should decide when to use maximum power or when to deploy the overtake feature etc.

I want to see the fastest driver, whether it’s difficult or not means nothing, it’s the driver I want to see making decisions which can win or lose a race. Yes the team do the tactics etc but he was being told what to do corner by corner.

Dave!

I think that's wishful thinking given the complexities of the modern drivetrains and the reliability regs.

The software can be significantly dumbed down to the point where it’s all automatic like formula E. Then again it’s a team sport so I don’t see why so many people get mad about it.

duncs500 wrote: Thu Jul 16, 2020 6:13 pm

Rich B wrote: Thu Jul 16, 2020 5:57 pm

Marv wrote: Thu Jul 16, 2020 4:01 pm

To score a podium in the past decade is pretty difficult Rich. Mercedes, RBR and Ferrari normally have them three positions to themselves. Then you have to beat the rest of the mid field.

Apart from a couple of seasons, he's most of the time outscored his team mates. He's not an exceptional driver, but as an offering for a mid field team, he brings in decent points and money.

I just don't think Vettel would offer substantially better value for money.

That sort of thinking is exactly what will keep them a mid-level team.

Whether or not SV is the right option, they know exactly where they’ll be if they carry on as they are - which definitely isn’t winning.

No it isn't. The other way of looking at it is they could blow their car development budget on a driver that offers nothing over another driver that brings in better revenue.. . now that's the kind of thinking that will take them from mid-level team to the back of the grid.

Thats motor racing!

Mito Man wrote: Thu Jul 16, 2020 6:25 pm The software can be significantly dumbed down to the point where it’s all automatic like formula E. Then again it’s a team sport so I don’t see why so many people get mad about it.

i enjoyed it - far better than it all happening in a control room with no driver involvement.

Rich B wrote: Thu Jul 16, 2020 5:57 pm

Marv wrote: Thu Jul 16, 2020 4:01 pm

Rich B wrote: Thu Jul 16, 2020 2:22 pm pretty solid mid level. A handful of podiums I’m the last decade or however long he’s been doing it... who wants that from a number one driver!

To score a podium in the past decade is pretty difficult Rich. Mercedes, RBR and Ferrari normally have them three positions to themselves. Then you have to beat the rest of the mid field.

Apart from a couple of seasons, he's most of the time outscored his team mates. He's not an exceptional driver, but as an offering for a mid field team, he brings in decent points and money.

I just don't think Vettel would offer substantially better value for money.

That sort of thinking is exactly what will keep them a mid-level team.

Whether or not SV is the right option, they know exactly where they’ll be if they carry on as they are - which definitely isn’t winning.

I guess with the rebrand to Aston Martin next year having a recognizable face to try to shift some cars becomes all the more important. Obviously it's important for any team but I imagine the leverage of it is greater (in theory) than if he's just being used to bring in sponsor money and sell merch.