The exploitation of Greta Thunberg

[RobYob]

As for everyone else who thinks she is on the money, I take it you all have your cars up for sale and will be cycling or taking public transport from here forwards?

No coz you'd be a mong to fall for strawman bullshit like that.

Supporting progressive policies to get everyone cleaning up their act is far more worthwhile than doing a solo caveman routine.

[Rich B]

There never seems to be a compromise with these people. It takes time to change things and each step forward should be celebrated, but it always seems like any step forward is just berated as being rubbish.

Suggest practical, working solutions and people will do it, not everyone has access to a yacht to sail to work or even the ability to walk to work.

[ZedLeg]

I think that's a problem that comes from both sides.

There are some environmentalists that think that if you're being anything less than perfect then you're not really trying and there are some critics who use this idea to deride anyone who doesn't meet these crazy standards as a hypocrite.

I personally just try and do the best I can. It's not perfect but it's better than doing nothing.

Nothing is going to change until we can fundamentally change the way we as a whole interact with the world around us so this whole thing might be futile but I'd rather try and change than just shrug my shoulders and carry on.

[Nathan]

There never seems to be a compromise with these people. It takes time to change things and each step forward should be celebrated, but it always seems like any step forward is just berated as being rubbish.

Suggest practical, working solutions and people will do it, not everyone has access to a yacht to sail to work or even the ability to walk to work.

Says the guy who commutes in an M3...

[mik]

There never seems to be a compromise with these people. It takes time to change things and each step forward should be celebrated, but it always seems like any step forward is just berated as being rubbish.

That’s because steps are not good enough Rich. There should only be strides. Ostrich strides. Giant Ostrich strides.

Anything else is fairytale pandering to your unconscious capitalist bias. Whilst the planet is dying. You idiots.

[Swervin_Mervin]

There never seems to be a compromise with these people. It takes time to change things and each step forward should be celebrated, but it always seems like any step forward is just berated as being rubbish.

Suggest practical, working solutions and people will do it, not everyone has access to a yacht to sail to work or even the ability to walk to work.

Says the guy who commutes in an M3...

As opposed to?

[RobYob]

I personally just try and do the best I can. It's not perfect but it's better than doing nothing.

Very much this.

I'm probably very much guilty of positivity bias, but I think empathy has made us the dominant species on this blue dot and will hopefully keep us there for a few more millenia.

[ZedLeg]

Mik apparently has strong feelings about this .

[drcarlos]

As for everyone else who thinks she is on the money, I take it you all have your cars up for sale and will be cycling or taking public transport from here forwards?

No coz you'd be a mong to fall for strawman bullshit like that.

Supporting progressive policies to get everyone cleaning up their act is far more worthwhile than doing a solo caveman routine.

You do know this is what she is avocating right? It may not be personal transport but the end of flying is right at the top of her list.

It's fine for her to take a million pound yahct with a full crew from Sweden to New York as shes bank rolled by mega money now, but the average joe on the street it's hardly practical.

I should add that I work at home as much as possible so I don't add to polution and congestion and have chosen a green energy supplier too. I agree with a lot of the sentiments and don't just shrug and carry on but I don't enjoy emotional blackmail from a stroppy teen that doesn't understand most of what she is talking about, I already have one in my house who'd argue black was white if it suited his mood.

[mik]

The biggest impact on the climate is the ever increasing population. At some point it will have to become socially unacceptable to create more than 2 offspring per couple. But the person that points that out will be considered the biggest bar steward that ever lived. So you didn’t hear this from me OK?

[Mito Man]

It’s getting a bit ridiculous now, I remember reading about how cycling can be worse for the environment in some situations because you expend more energy and will need to eat more, but unless you eat locally produced fruit and veg the carbon footprint from buying meat and exported food could be worse than driving
There was a lawyer yesterday going on about meat being “ecocide” and that he hoped it would be banned like smoking in public places.

I think we’re pretty far ahead of the game in the UK when compared to the rest of Europe. They still give out plastic straws there and generally use way more single use plastics, much fewer electric cars/hybrids, you barely see solar panels in Europe, we have a lot more renewable energy unlike say Germany who still rip holes in the earth to burn coal, we cycle less but our public transport system trumps them so it probably balances out.

It’s America, China and all the developing countries which are ruining the environment on a mass scale, and they’ll continue not caring. We’ll save a few billion tonnes of co2 by building wind turbines and they’ll just burn a forest down negating the net impact in a few days... We will reduce our use of fossil fuels but China will just build another coal power plant... Its a bit futile unless everyone is aligned.

[drcarlos]

The biggest impact on the climate is the ever increasing population. At some point it will have to become socially unacceptable to create more than 2 offspring per couple. But the person that points that out will be considered the biggest bar steward that ever lived. So you didn’t hear this from me OK?

Mik, it's the fucking mahoosive elephant in the room that one, glad you mentioned it as I don't have to now, you unfeeling arsehole!

[Mito Man]

The biggest impact on the climate is the ever increasing population. At some point it will have to become socially unacceptable to create more than 2 offspring per couple. But the person that points that out will be considered the biggest bar steward that ever lived. So you didn’t hear this from me OK?

Mik, it's the fucking mahoosive elephant in the room that one, glad you mentioned it as I don't have to now, you unfeeling arsehole!

This will be a bit of a non problem in about 10 years time when we put out so much radiation that our testes just turn into Christmas tree ornaments.

[RobYob]

As for everyone else who thinks she is on the money, I take it you all have your cars up for sale and will be cycling or taking public transport from here forwards?

No coz you'd be a mong to fall for strawman bullshit like that.

Supporting progressive policies to get everyone cleaning up their act is far more worthwhile than doing a solo caveman routine.

You do know this is what she is avocating right? It may not be personal transport but the end of flying is right at the top of her list.

It's fine for her to take a million pound yahct with a full crew from Sweden to New York as shes bank rolled by mega money now, but the average joe on the street it's hardly practical.

I should add that I work at home as much as possible so I don't add to polution and congestion and have chosen a green energy supplier too. I agree with a lot of the sentiments and don't just shrug and carry on but I don't enjoy emotional blackmail from a stroppy teen that doesn't understand most of what she is talking about, I already have one in my house who'd argue black was white if it suited his mood.

"Emotional blackmail" "Stroppy teen" "Doesn't understand" not a great way of putting a strong counterpoint across.

Is any of what she said incorrect?

Carbon reduced, then neutral and ultimately carbon zero flight is a fine ambition isn't it? Maybe this will attract support as a policy and therefore research dollars. That's a good thing.

[evostick]

An inspiring speech, I don't get the terror of some people at an articulate 16 year old girl.

No terror.

As the father of a highly articulate 16 year old girl, I know that she only relies on those emotional tactics when she's already lost the argument.

It's a shame that she's being coerced into exposing her vulnerability to such an audience. Long-term it ain't going to be good for her I'm sure.

And what's up with her eyes?. Death staring everyone. Demonic little bastard.

"No terror"

"Demonic little bastard"

Haven't seen someone undermine their own argument that quickly in years.

Kids having tantrums do not fill me with terror. Even the weird ones.

The girl in the remake of Pet Semetary was scarier and that didn't even give me nightmares.

[RobYob]

No terror.

As the father of a highly articulate 16 year old girl, I know that she only relies on those emotional tactics when she's already lost the argument.

It's a shame that she's being coerced into exposing her vulnerability to such an audience. Long-term it ain't going to be good for her I'm sure.

And what's up with her eyes?. Death staring everyone. Demonic little bastard.

"No terror"

"Demonic little bastard"

Haven't seen someone undermine their own argument that quickly in years.

Kids having tantrums do not fill me with terror. Even the weird ones.

The girl in the remake of Pet Semetary was scarier and that didn't even give me nightmares.

If she doesn't scare you why such a pressing need to belittle her?

[drcarlos]

No coz you'd be a mong to fall for strawman bullshit like that.

Supporting progressive policies to get everyone cleaning up their act is far more worthwhile than doing a solo caveman routine.

You do know this is what she is avocating right? It may not be personal transport but the end of flying is right at the top of her list.

It's fine for her to take a million pound yahct with a full crew from Sweden to New York as shes bank rolled by mega money now, but the average joe on the street it's hardly practical.

I should add that I work at home as much as possible so I don't add to polution and congestion and have chosen a green energy supplier too. I agree with a lot of the sentiments and don't just shrug and carry on but I don't enjoy emotional blackmail from a stroppy teen that doesn't understand most of what she is talking about, I already have one in my house who'd argue black was white if it suited his mood.

"Emotional blackmail" "Stroppy teen" "Doesn't understand" not a great way of putting a strong counterpoint across.

Is any of what she said incorrect?

Carbon reduced, then neutral and ultimately carbon zero flight is a fine ambition isn't it? Maybe this will attract support as a policy and therefore research dollars. That's a good thing.

Did you watch the Today show interview?

Her arguments are not specific, she just says we need to change everything and do anything and I'm going to keep getting upset about it until we do. When she is put in front of the biggest forum (at the UN) with cameras looking on she could have gotten so specific and said we need to change A and B it could provide focus and scruitiny, but she just didn't. She just had a strop on stage.
I personally haven't seen anything where she talks about specific points and doesn't get over emotional about total destruction. I've seen her go in slap a report down on a desk and say nothing but anyone could do that, even to quote you a 'mong' could with coaching. However if you want to link a video of her talking facts articulatly i'll happily watch.

Her yacht trip was hardly zero carbon either (with the 2 crews flying to and fro shes created more carbon that if just her and her dad flew there and back) and she's flying home too. How's that for not understanding?

[ZedLeg]

It's publicity, as I said earlier she has more people engaged with what's happening than anyone has managed for a long time.

If 100 people decide to holiday here instead of flying somewhere on holiday does that offset the flights for her and the crew?

As I said, no one is perfectly environmentally balanced. I was reading a study the other day that said that if you moved to the country to try and be self sufficient you're likely to leave a bigger carbon footprint than someone living in a city due to population density diffusing the carbon footprint across more people. Doesn't matter what you do someone will move the goalposts, people started using fabric tote bags instead of plastic bags and reports started coming out saying you shouldn't because it uses more resources to make the totes .

The idea of perfection is just used as a stick to beat people with.

[PaulJ]

The biggest impact on the climate is the ever increasing population. At some point it will have to become socially unacceptable to create more than 2 offspring per couple. But the person that points that out will be considered the biggest bar steward that ever lived. So you didn’t hear this from me OK?

We might also like to make the keeping of dogs and cats as domestic pets illegal. I'm sure I read somewhere that the birth to death carbon footprint of a Labrador is about the same a Range-Rover over (say) a 20 year lifespan... At least we could then say goodbye to those little bags of shit hanging all round our parks so routinely.

There. I'm a bigger bar steward now.

[drcarlos]

It's publicity, as I said earlier she has more people engaged with what's happening than anyone has managed for a long time.

If 100 people decide to holiday here instead of flying somewhere on holiday does that offset the flights for her and the crew?

Ah, so do as I say no as I do then. The perfect thing to do would have been a video address from he home country to the forum explaining that she felt it was the most environmentally friendly way of addressing them. That would have demonstrated understanding rather than a cynical publicity stunt.

I'm sat at home talking to people around the world today (just finished a 4 way conference with someone in Maidenhead, someone in Copenhagen and someone in India) and I rarely travel to meet them F2F, because it's just an inefficient waste of time and resources.

Also forgive me if I'm not just a bit sceptial over the whole carbon thing after being told by previous administrations to buy Diesel as it was better for the environment, only to now be berated becuase they are worse in other ways.

Now there is an element of truth in some of these things but I want to get past the over sensationalised, over emotional bullshit money grabbing side of thing and get down to hard facts.
If she'd started talking plastics (single use and longer term stuff too) and mentioned replacements like hemp based materials for single use plastic replacement (absorbs CO2 while growing too so win, win https://www.theguardian.com/sustainable ... ate-change) i'd be saying that girls done a bit of research and it's engaging me, because it sounds like a good idea.