The NHS is really good!

[unzippy]

Sadly not my experience of NHS hospitals in South London - Kings in particular. They've treated some of our friends and their kids on several occasions recently and the care in each case was poor to negligent (in acute care).

Whereas Kings (and St Thomas') could not be better with Dad and his MND - absolutely fantastic.

[GG.]

That's nice to hear that people have received good care for family members. I'm not saying it is always bad, but as the commentary above indicates it very much is a complete lottery.

Ultimately on a rational and unemotional analysis of the way it is run (and the moral failings of effectively harvesting the medical professionals of health systems of poorer countries all across the world to prop it up rather than training sufficient of our own), it is not ever a system that would be set up now and the resistance to pulling it apart and reforming it is simply because we're so deep in its hard to find a way out.

Like many things - the socialist ideals of it all actually drives inequality as those who can pay for private do so and the rest have to tough it out.

[Gavster]

You forgot sandwiches! When my wife needed an endoscopy, Nuffield offered me a nice sandwich whilst I waited in her room. Well worth the £400 per month for our family health plan.

Ohhh and the teapots. When I had my hernia done, it was a private hospital via the NHS, and when I woke up they gave me a pot of tea in a lovely teapot with cups and saucers. It was all very lovely.

Still have the morphine at home if anyone needs it

I’ve only had morphine once, when I was writhing around and vomiting with pain due to kidney stones. And it was bloomin lovely stuff

[Explosive Newt]

Yes that's rather a material point that was omitted... if you cannot get the care at all due to a massive waiting list or GPs that won't refer you or a desire to reduce costs or not send you for scans because the MRI machine overcapacity, etc. etc. it is not "the same barring a pot plant" is it? Delays in receiving healthcare obviously correlate with outcomes , particularly in progressive diseases so that is a huge difference.

That is all part of the analysis of the adequacy of the system, not just the care once you've been allocated a slot. It probably also should be dropped into conversation that the total bill for clinical negligence in the NHS is now the same size as the entire annual UK defence budget.

No, that's a fair point, although I would argue that it is two points.

What you want is a perfect alignment of provision, need and desire.
Long wait for cancer endoscopy is failure of provision and people die.
GP not providing a service that someone wants but don't need (e.g. someone thinks they need a heart scan but the diagnosis of muscular chest pain can be made on examination alone) is an appropriate matching of provision and need. Desire can be addressed in the private sector.

We absolutely should be spending more on getting it right first time and less on settling lawsuits from failing to do so and indeed negligence bills are not the only example of attempted cost cutting in one area creating an even greater expense in another.

[Explosive Newt]

Sadly not my experience of NHS hospitals in South London - Kings in particular. They've treated some of our friends and their kids on several occasions recently and the care in each case was poor to negligent (in acute care).

Whereas Kings (and St Thomas') could not be better with Dad and his MND - absolutely fantastic.

Specialist services tend to be better provisioned than primary care or front door acute services. They can be more efficient by seeing a narrower spectrum of patients (as above) and also are better at "shouting louder" and commissioning extra resource.

Just to say I'm not some anti-private-sector pinko but I don't think the private healthcare sector necessarily has the answers for our biggest problems. By and large we just need more resource in the right places, however that is funded.

[Explosive Newt]

You forgot sandwiches! When my wife needed an endoscopy, Nuffield offered me a nice sandwich whilst I waited in her room. Well worth the £400 per month for our family health plan.

Ohhh and the teapots. When I had my hernia done, it was a private hospital via the NHS, and when I woke up they gave me a pot of tea in a lovely teapot with cups and saucers. It was all very lovely.

I say this as it is interesting how people perceive quality in healthcare. I do a pretty specialist job and I have seen patients who thought they were getting brilliant care because the waiting room was plush, the doctor had a smart suit, and everyone had lots of time to listen, but actually they were being mis-managed.

I don't have anything against all these things that contribute to the experience and make you feel less miserable while you are poorly, that's important too. Of course providing a nice experience and having good governance are not mutually exclusive and ideally we should do both! There is work to be done in the NHS to improve experience and in the private sector too.

[V8Granite]

Sadly not my experience of NHS hospitals in South London - Kings in particular. They've treated some of our friends and their kids on several occasions recently and the care in each case was poor to negligent (in acute care).

Whereas Kings (and St Thomas') could not be better with Dad and his MND - absolutely fantastic.

Specialist services tend to be better provisioned than primary care or front door acute services. They can be more efficient by seeing a narrower spectrum of patients (as above) and also are better at "shouting louder" and commissioning extra resource.

Just to say I'm not some anti-private-sector pinko but I don't think the private healthcare sector necessarily has the answers for our biggest problems. By and large we just need more resource in the right places, however that is funded.

The front of house thing does make a big difference. Our issues have sadly been down to lazy nurses. Also our best experiences have been down to amazing nurses.

Dave!

[Swervin_Mervin]

IME it depends on the Trust, specialism of illness, pot luck on the day, general organisation etc, etc. If you're in the system for the long haul, you have to have your shit together and be switched on, as the onus will generally be on you the patient to know WTF is and has been going on.

[Holley]

You forgot sandwiches! When my wife needed an endoscopy, Nuffield offered me a nice sandwich whilst I waited in her room. Well worth the £400 per month for our family health plan.

Ohhh and the teapots. When I had my hernia done, it was a private hospital via the NHS, and when I woke up they gave me a pot of tea in a lovely teapot with cups and saucers. It was all very lovely.

I say this as it is interesting how people perceive quality in healthcare. I do a pretty specialist job and I have seen patients who thought they were getting brilliant care because the waiting room was plush, the doctor had a smart suit, and everyone had lots of time to listen, but actually they were being mis-managed.

I don't have anything against all these things that contribute to the experience and make you feel less miserable while you are poorly, that's important too. Of course providing a nice experience and having good governance are not mutually exclusive and ideally we should do both! There is work to be done in the NHS to improve experience and in the private sector too.

I do agree there is definitely an element of perceived treatment but there is also a tangible difference in care. Missus has had endoscopies and colonoscopies via the NHS where experience wasn't anywhere as nice. Privately they have asked how 'sedated' would you like to be whereas on the NHS it was some spray (no sedation offered) and try not to gag. For some that's not a problem, but for a massive man baby like me I would want the drugs!

But I think it would be a huge mistake if the NHS became privatised, I'm very grateful it exists and my daughter's care and Great Ormond street has been second to none.

[Gavster]

You forgot sandwiches! When my wife needed an endoscopy, Nuffield offered me a nice sandwich whilst I waited in her room. Well worth the £400 per month for our family health plan.

Ohhh and the teapots. When I had my hernia done, it was a private hospital via the NHS, and when I woke up they gave me a pot of tea in a lovely teapot with cups and saucers. It was all very lovely.

I say this as it is interesting how people perceive quality in healthcare. I do a pretty specialist job and I have seen patients who thought they were getting brilliant care because the waiting room was plush, the doctor had a smart suit, and everyone had lots of time to listen, but actually they were being mis-managed.

I don't have anything against all these things that contribute to the experience and make you feel less miserable while you are poorly, that's important too. Of course providing a nice experience and having good governance are not mutually exclusive and ideally we should do both! There is work to be done in the NHS to improve experience and in the private sector too.

It wasn’t just the teapot, the surgeon had some well used Porsche keys on his desk so must have been a CG too

I was being kinda facetious, because although it was a slightly more luxurious experience, I wasn’t that impressed with the way they managed everything. And honestly, that surgeon sounded like he never wanted to do another hernia op ever again.

As a patient with very literal critical knowledge of medicine or how to manage the treatment, it all comes back to the way that people treat me and ensure that my understanding of the treatment is absolutely nailed.

[Jobbo]

Still have the morphine at home if anyone needs it

I’ve only had morphine once, when I was writhing around and vomiting with pain due to kidney stones. And it was bloomin lovely stuff

Have you read the Will Self short story, 'Scale'? It's in Grey Area but available on its own. Very morphine heavy.

[Gavster]

I’ve not read that, will check it out!

[GG.]

Ohhh and the teapots. When I had my hernia done, it was a private hospital via the NHS, and when I woke up they gave me a pot of tea in a lovely teapot with cups and saucers. It was all very lovely.

I say this as it is interesting how people perceive quality in healthcare. I do a pretty specialist job and I have seen patients who thought they were getting brilliant care because the waiting room was plush, the doctor had a smart suit, and everyone had lots of time to listen, but actually they were being mis-managed.

I don't have anything against all these things that contribute to the experience and make you feel less miserable while you are poorly, that's important too. Of course providing a nice experience and having good governance are not mutually exclusive and ideally we should do both! There is work to be done in the NHS to improve experience and in the private sector too.

It wasn’t just the teapot, the surgeon had some well used Porsche keys on his desk so must have been a CG too

I was being kinda facetious, because although it was a slightly more luxurious experience, I wasn’t that impressed with the way they managed everything. And honestly, that surgeon sounded like he never wanted to do another hernia op ever again.

As a patient with very literal critical knowledge of medicine or how to manage the treatment, it all comes back to the way that people treat me and ensure that my understanding of the treatment is absolutely nailed.

I had a paraumbilical hernia from weights training for university rugby - got an op in the space of a couple of weeks done privately. My housemate's dad at the time was a PE teacher with an extant inguinal hernia and had to wait 9 months... Mine was in a less annoying place than his and I certainly would not have wanted to wait months to get it fixed (particularly as they typically grow in size meaning a larger repair (and can also become strangulated)).

[GG.]

Still have the morphine at home if anyone needs it

I’ve only had morphine once, when I was writhing around and vomiting with pain due to kidney stones. And it was bloomin lovely stuff

Have you read the Will Self short story, 'Scale'? It's in Grey Area but available on its own. Very morphine heavy.

Morphine just knocks you out IME (maybe because when I had it I hadn't slept for about a week with pain) - with propofol they generally minimally sedate so you get to enjoy the ride!

[Swervin_Mervin]

I say this as it is interesting how people perceive quality in healthcare. I do a pretty specialist job and I have seen patients who thought they were getting brilliant care because the waiting room was plush, the doctor had a smart suit, and everyone had lots of time to listen, but actually they were being mis-managed.

I don't have anything against all these things that contribute to the experience and make you feel less miserable while you are poorly, that's important too. Of course providing a nice experience and having good governance are not mutually exclusive and ideally we should do both! There is work to be done in the NHS to improve experience and in the private sector too.

It wasn’t just the teapot, the surgeon had some well used Porsche keys on his desk so must have been a CG too

I was being kinda facetious, because although it was a slightly more luxurious experience, I wasn’t that impressed with the way they managed everything. And honestly, that surgeon sounded like he never wanted to do another hernia op ever again.

As a patient with very literal critical knowledge of medicine or how to manage the treatment, it all comes back to the way that people treat me and ensure that my understanding of the treatment is absolutely nailed.

I had a paraumbilical hernia from weights training for university rugby - got an op in the space of a couple of weeks done privately. My housemate's dad at the time was a PE teacher with an extant inguinal hernia and had to wait 9 months... Mine was in a less annoying place than his and I certainly would not have wanted to wait months to get it fixed (particularly as they typically grow in size meaning a larger repair (and can also become strangulated)).

My experience only relates to trying to get my shoulder sorted. From seeing my GP I'd had an ultrasound inside 2mo. Then got shunted to the local musculo-skeletal unit. After a 4mo wait I got 3 sessions of therapy before they gave up. Couldn't do the barbotage treatment that the GP had suggested I needed.

Used the wife's company health cover. Got appt within 3 days, an MRI 3 days after that, and barbotage treatment 2 weeks later.

It's the inefficiency that's the biggest issue in the NHS as I see it from what my wife has to put up with. Despite being a transplant patient, and having had a strongly worded letter from her consultant, she's now having to go private for one particular unrelated issue she's having. A condition that's likely shortened the life of her transplant and pushed her back on to dialysis sooner than hoped. And which until resolved might mean she gets passed over for another transplant.

Ho hum

[GG.]

Sorry to hear of your/your wife's troubles

Private cover is the best value 2 grand a year you can spend IMO.