OV9

As a regular user of the Dartford crossing I'll applaud anything that eases the traffic volumes. Outside of very early/late night crossings, I can't remember not being delayed. It is never less than 10 minutes and on occasion it has been well over an hour. Even when crossing it is slow, 50 being aspirational.

Some of us outside the SE would just like some funds to implement the infrastructure projects needed elsewhere, though - but we're often told there's no money for them. It's bitterness, not an aversion to national infrastructure projects.

Gavster wrote: Wed Mar 26, 2025 10:14 am In the east the main problem is that any kind of issue in the Blackwall tunnel (broken down car, crash, stoppage etc) then it absolutely gridlocks the whole area, plus goods vehicles aren't allowed through Rotherhithe tunnel, so in a van you suddenly you have to divert to either Tower Bridge or Dartford to get across the river, which is a complete PITA and usually turns a 30 in journey into a 90+ minute one

This is further east than Dartford so won't change anything for those people. We need better crossings within the M25; I acknowledge that a foot bridge at Surrey Quays isn't going to be the answer for commercial vehicles of course.

Yeah, the 2022 Department for Levelling Up Housing and Communities agenda was meant to address regional development, in fact the whole levelling up policy document was specifically about non-London investment, although to be fair it was just a drop in the ocean, probably wasn't implemented and not really about infrastructure either. Which proves your point really.

Jobbo wrote: Wed Mar 26, 2025 10:21 am

Gavster wrote: Wed Mar 26, 2025 10:14 am In the east the main problem is that any kind of issue in the Blackwall tunnel (broken down car, crash, stoppage etc) then it absolutely gridlocks the whole area, plus goods vehicles aren't allowed through Rotherhithe tunnel, so in a van you suddenly you have to divert to either Tower Bridge or Dartford to get across the river, which is a complete PITA and usually turns a 30 in journey into a 90+ minute one

This is further east than Dartford so won't change anything for those people. We need better crossings within the M25; I acknowledge that a foot bridge at Surrey Quays isn't going to be the answer for commercial vehicles of course.

Yeah I know, that post was about the Silvertown tunnel!

Gavster wrote: Wed Mar 26, 2025 10:23 am

Jobbo wrote: Wed Mar 26, 2025 10:21 am

Gavster wrote: Wed Mar 26, 2025 10:14 am In the east the main problem is that any kind of issue in the Blackwall tunnel (broken down car, crash, stoppage etc) then it absolutely gridlocks the whole area, plus goods vehicles aren't allowed through Rotherhithe tunnel, so in a van you suddenly you have to divert to either Tower Bridge or Dartford to get across the river, which is a complete PITA and usually turns a 30 in journey into a 90+ minute one

This is further east than Dartford so won't change anything for those people. We need better crossings within the M25; I acknowledge that a foot bridge at Surrey Quays isn't going to be the answer for commercial vehicles of course.

Yeah I know, that post was about the Silvertown tunnel!

Blimey, how many tunnels do you want? Surely there ought to be a tunnel between North Devon and South Wales before you join together Kent and Essex any more

That's a pretty cool idea to be fair

I've often wondered why on earth there hasn't been a ferry service between the two. It's quite a distance though.

I'd sooner have a new M6 Toll Road from about Jct 18 to 27 or 28 - Bypass all of Manchester.

I appreciate this is a bit selfish as it benefits me for my one or two trips per year to the lakes but given the cult of the individual, I EXPECT government to be customised to my needs only

dinny_g wrote: Wed Mar 26, 2025 11:03 am I'd sooner have a new M6 Toll Road from about Jct 18 to 27 or 28 - Bypass all of Manchester.

I appreciate this is a bit selfish as it benefits me for my one or two trips per year to the lakes but given the cult of the individual, I EXPECT government to be customised to my needs only

The M6 doesn't go through Manchester, Dinny

If we’re doing selfish requests I’d like the M20 to be joined up to the M27 (so Folkestone region to Portsmouth). It’s a bit crazy that to go from the South East to any other Southern location you have to travel up to the M25 and back down. It’s all too London centric!

And I am happy about the approved Thames crossing, Dartford is always a choke point and if travelling north I tend to almost always go around the western side

Population of Scotland is 5.4 million.

If this helps keep London's 8.9 million population where they are, then I'm all for it.

Mito Man wrote: Wed Mar 26, 2025 11:16 am If we’re doing selfish requests I’d like the M20 to be joined up to the M27 (so Folkestone region to Portsmouth). It’s a bit crazy that to go from the South East to any other Southern location you have to travel up to the M25 and back down. It’s all too London centric!

And I am happy about the approved Thames crossing, Dartford is always a choke point and if travelling north I tend to almost always go around the western side

Not sure how selfish that is, really. A large part of the issues with the M25 is that traffic is forced in to go out elsewhere, unless you fancy bumbling along on smaller/slow roads.

As a principle to get traffic moving around it would make sense.

Swervin_Mervin wrote: Wed Mar 26, 2025 11:06 am

dinny_g wrote: Wed Mar 26, 2025 11:03 am I'd sooner have a new M6 Toll Road from about Jct 18 to 27 or 28 - Bypass all of Manchester.

I appreciate this is a bit selfish as it benefits me for my one or two trips per year to the lakes but given the cult of the individual, I EXPECT government to be customised to my needs only

The M6 doesn't go through Manchester, Dinny

My new toll road would pass by Manchester…

It would also have no junctions on it at all - you join at 18, leave at 28

dinny_g wrote: Wed Mar 26, 2025 11:42 am

Swervin_Mervin wrote: Wed Mar 26, 2025 11:06 am

dinny_g wrote: Wed Mar 26, 2025 11:03 am I'd sooner have a new M6 Toll Road from about Jct 18 to 27 or 28 - Bypass all of Manchester.

I appreciate this is a bit selfish as it benefits me for my one or two trips per year to the lakes but given the cult of the individual, I EXPECT government to be customised to my needs only

The M6 doesn't go through Manchester, Dinny

My new toll road would pass by Manchester…

It would also have no junctions on it at all - you join at 18, leave at 28

Surely you'd then leave at 19? No other junctions.

Gavster wrote: Wed Mar 26, 2025 10:08 am This is my point though, it's ridiculously difficult to implement massive projects to perfect standards in such a busy, expensive and crowded island and there will always be inefficiencies as a result.

@Gavster @V8Granite You're kinda both right TBH. Yes, it is difficult to do, not helped by the sheer scale of legislation and bureaucracy involved. However these projects are run in their entirety by consultants with zero skin in the game except the longer it goes on, the more money they make. Usually the client organisation is managed by seconded consultants, often even from the same design / delivery organisations working on the project in a delivery capacity.

Having worked for contractors whose employees genuinely want to get on and build stuff (often for no other reason than it's ingrained in their nature to smash a job out and move on to the next one), it's incredibly frustrating to have 'client' consultants holding up progress for often spurious reasons (spelling mistakes in documents for example!).

Now being a consultant I still have that drive to get the job done, but when I hit a brick wall of frustration at least I can sit back and think "ah well, I'm getting paid no matter what".

DeskJockey wrote: Wed Mar 26, 2025 12:25 pm Surely you'd then leave at 19? No other junctions.

My new road would follow the existing M6 Toll naming convention.

dinny_g wrote: Wed Mar 26, 2025 2:28 pm

DeskJockey wrote: Wed Mar 26, 2025 12:25 pm Surely you'd then leave at 19? No other junctions.

My new road would follow the existing M6 Toll naming convention.

That'll be confusing, but it is your road, so who am I to argue?

Junction 19 to 27 will remain on the current M6.

Join the new toll at junction 18, re-join the old M6 at 28.

Not sure what's confusing but given I'm making the point, I'm prepared to give you the benefit of the doubt..

@dinny_g as it's your road, will you be adding any special features to relieve boredom such as an homage to Alton Towers Corkscrew?