OV9

V8Granite wrote: Fri Jun 07, 2024 12:40 pm Yep never ever ever flash, if I have a slight doubt then I make sure my headlights are on

That's just a very long flash

Much like when do shorts become trousers, when does a flash become lights on, or when do lights on stop becoming a flash ?

Dave!

I would have taken the flash as an “it’s ok, go on then”

I have never flashed before overtaking, and it has never occurred to me to do so.

I know the Highway Code use is to “make someone aware you are there” but that’s not how it’s used in everyday driving. I’d say 99% of the time it’s to let someone out into traffic, to pull out into your lane, to cross oncoming traffic or to pull back in after an overtake. The odd anger flash if someone’s a berk.

Is this a cultural difference
Like thumbs up means awesome here but in some places it means up yours!

Mito Man wrote: Fri Jun 07, 2024 12:52 pm Is this a cultural difference

Must be. None of you would last very long on the German Autobahn.

FWIW :

1. The Highway Code states : Only flash your headlights to let other road users know that you are there. Do not flash your headlights to convey any other message or intimidate other road users. Never assume that flashing headlights is a signal inviting you to proceed.

2. Roadcraft states (in the Overtaking section): If the driver in front has not noticed you, consider using your headlights to signal that you are there. (It does not state whether this is a flash a la mik, or leave them on forevah a la Dave).

Rich B wrote: Fri Jun 07, 2024 12:10 pm

Mito Man wrote: Fri Jun 07, 2024 12:05 pm General etiquette at least down south is that whenever it’s quite tight and someone indicates to pull out to overtake, the car behind will flash its lights to let them out in front and now that’s ingrained into everything. Motorways, dual carriageway, junctions, all the same.

ive read this about 5 times and still don't get it - I am quite hung over though.

I'm with Mito for a change ! Flashing usually means "go ahead" e.g. you're in the middle lane of the motorway, a truck indicates to move out of the inside lane, you flash them to let them know you've seen them and you're leaving space for them to move out. Same with junctions etc.

So flashing before overtaking seem contradictory. If anything, a car flashing me before overtaking me, I'd read it as them being an angry road-rager and the message being YOU'RE IN MY WAY YOU MORON.

Side note - but i once got a bollocking from Gordon Shedden for flashing folk on a trackday to move out the way!

I shrugged.

I've never flashed before overtaking (this all sounds very euphemistic) or been flashed in that situation.

I agree that I wouldn't assume if I'd been flashed from behind it was meant as encouragement for me to go... except perhaps if I was in the 911 and someone was behind me in another similar type of car. Then maybe I would interpret it as a "let's go".

GG. wrote: Fri Jun 07, 2024 2:12 pm Iperhaps if I was in the 911 and someone was behind me in another similar type of car

Like a Morgan. Got it.

Same as Mik. I was taught years ago (25+) by a Police Officer to flash before overtaking on rural roads to alert the vehicle in front of my presence but at recent IAM training the chap now felt the "flash" can be interpreted so many different ways these days e.g. act of aggression, safe to pull in, safe to cross etc it is now considered ambiguous and dangerous.

Another example used was who is using the information, you flash a car to say its ok to pull-out of a junction in front of you but an out of site pedestrian takes it as ok to cross the road and the car you've flashed knocks the bus wanker down as he's thanking you!

Did made me think about the messages I'm giving.

GG. wrote: Fri Jun 07, 2024 2:12 pm I've never flashed before overtaking (this all sounds very euphemistic) or been flashed in that situation.

I agree that I wouldn't assume if I'd been flashed from behind it was meant as encouragement for me to go... except perhaps if I was in the 911 and someone was behind me in another similar type of car. Then maybe I would interpret it as a "let's go".

To the nearest public toilet or just to hold hands ?

Porsches have some craaaaazy rules.

Dave!

mik wrote: Fri Jun 07, 2024 12:36 pm We should possibly summon @tim to this discussion as I believe he still does some (bike) tuition. He can give us a completely different 3rd view

Flashing before overtaking is far too open to mis-interpretation IMO. In fact why are you even indicating? I beat this out of my students with sticks if necessary. Do you indicate left afterwards too? Please tell me you don't or I'll have to have you humanly destroyed. Soz.

Your road position and off-siding for the view before committing gives all the information needed to anyone in front who is awake. If they're asleep or you're not sure if they've seen you, the overtake isn't really on. Overtaking someone whilst they're approaching or closely following a slower vehicle is so fraught with potential danger I'd rather lose the opportunity to make progress for a bit than end up upside down in a hedge (again).

The only time I would consider using a headlight flash as per Roadcraft's advice is well before any intent to overtake, not as one continuous flash/indicate/go/crash sequence.

Carlos wrote: Fri Jun 07, 2024 7:11 pm Did made me think about the messages I'm giving.

Are you tugging?

Take
Use
Give

Finally some sense.

tim wrote: Sat Jun 08, 2024 9:30 am Do you indicate left afterwards too? Please tell me you don't or I'll have to have you humanly destroyed.

Tim. Purleez.

tim wrote: Sat Jun 08, 2024 9:30 am In fact why are you even indicating?

So that Mik, behind me in his Evora, knows I'm doing something and doesn't launch his own manoeuvre, ploughing into my ass when I come out.

So to speak.

Sundayjumper wrote: Sat Jun 08, 2024 9:55 am

tim wrote: Sat Jun 08, 2024 9:30 am In fact why are you even indicating?

So that Mik, behind me in his Evora, knows I'm doing something and doesn't launch his own manoeuvre, ploughing into my ass when I come out.

So to speak.

At which point you’ll appreciate your overenthusiastic headrests.

@Mik spotted last week



Also, Mik's a flasher.. who would've thought it!?

I love that clip. Morgan driver clearly overestimated the power of his car. Peugeot driver doesn’t seem to brake very hard at all. Morgan driver seems to not give a shit about the crash and keeps going initially. Police car also thinking not fucking again and dawdles to the scene of the accident
Nobody gave a toss.

IanF wrote: Sat Jun 08, 2024 10:47 am @Mik spotted last week

Fucking dick pulled right out in front of me, and initially stayed over to the right on the hatched area. I rode the horn, but I forgot that whilst driving in England, your horn means “after you sir” ……