OV9

Presumably there are legal guidelines specifying minimum standards for brake and indicator lights? I saw a few random EV cars today which all had some funky looking rear setup of brake lights and indicators, the latter of which were really difficult to actually make out when activated.

I think so, iirc Tavarish said the P1 had the smallest brake lights in terms of surface area which McLaren could legally fit.
So this is the limit

There used to be some silly things, like lotus not being able to illuminate both rear lights each side as the box draw around the lamps included the bodywork inbetween which made them not bright enough for the total area. By illuminating just one the box was drawn around that single lamp which made it bright enough. Despite in the real world having twice as many lights lit would make it twice as visible to an actual person.

All these vehicles must meet the required legislation even if it means they don’t work very well in the real world when viewed by humans.

integrale_evo wrote: Wed Apr 03, 2024 9:09 pm There used to be some silly things, like lotus not being able to illuminate both rear lights each side as the box draw around the lamps included the bodywork inbetween which made them not bright enough for the total area.

Ah !! That's interesting, the 360 may have fallen foul of the same thing, despite the characteristic double rear lights, only the outers illuminate normally, the inners are just fog & reverse. It's on my list to investigate the wiring and see if we can have all four as tail lights.

(not my pic)

Quite possibly. And yes, would look much better if all four could be used as tails

That makes sense as I’ve seen the twin brake light mod done on a skyline I think.

Dave!

I was going to mention that, I’m pretty sure it was a common mod on r33 skylines.

I’ve no idea how it would have worked on something like the P1, assume it was changed / updated somehow.

Fun fact about motorcycle rear lights, my BMW uses the "indicators" as the rear light (no central main light cluster). Looks odd, confuses people but no-one has run into the back of mine yet..

Was behind a Honda HR-V for a while today and as far as tiny, indistinguishable indicators go, I think they're the worst yet.

I replied to that article, saying they’ve failed to put in the two reasons headlights have become so stupid- the effect of appallingly shit led streetlighting that’s barely fit for purpose and also all the massive touchscreens glowing brighter than an old 100w incandescent bulb, that prevents your natural night vision from coming in and thus not needing 1 billion lumen lights

jamcg wrote: Sat Feb 21, 2026 9:58 am I replied to that article, saying they’ve failed to put in the two reasons headlights have become so stupid- the effect of appallingly shit led streetlighting that’s barely fit for purpose and also all the massive touchscreens glowing brighter than an old 100w incandescent bulb, that prevents your natural night vision from coming in and thus not needing 1 billion lumen lights

I agree on the second point. Can't wait for flipping iPads to be banished from car dashboards. On the former though I haven't found LED streetlighting to be too bad. Around here at least.

Terrible in Stockton, especially on foot, it could be a yoof on the rob coming towards you or your nanna, you can’t tell until you’re within touching distance

I hate led street lighting, it seems very patchy with bright spots and harsh shadows. Always preferred the gentle orange glow of sodium lamps.

Plus you can usually see the actual optics of the leds which seem unnecessary bright, but at the same time don’t cast much useful light.

I drove into London around new year as noticed just how many led lights were flashing or flickering. I assume most are sealed units too so have to be replaced rather than fixed.

jamcg wrote: Sat Feb 21, 2026 10:20 pm Terrible in Stockton, especially on foot, it could be a yoof on the rob coming towards you or your nanna, you can’t tell until you’re within touching distance

Yeah but in Stockton it’s always safer to assume the former…

Yeah LEDs are so shit as its a harsh cut off so instead of the brightness fading in and out its bright, dark, bright, dark etc.

Dave!