OV9

Tobacco is easy to grow at home, and it’s a common gardening plant grown for its pretty flowers so as long as you have a garden…

Mito Man wrote: Wed Nov 08, 2023 11:45 am

Rich B wrote: Wed Nov 08, 2023 10:54 am

Jobbo wrote: Wed Nov 08, 2023 10:49 am I don't have a problem with the ban at all, though it is somewhat inconsistent with the creeping legalisation of cannabis. I thought we'd discussed this on here previously though; it's all very well banning something but doing it based on date of birth - so in 2049 you can buy ciggies if you're aged 41 but not if you're aged 40 - is just bizarre and pretty much unenforceable.

the idea is, in 2049, the under 40 year olds won't have ever bought cigarettes before (and certainly not when they're 16-25 when they would have been most likely to have tried them) so unlikely to start.

Of course no one is going to go to the trouble of asking a 40 year old for id.

If the idea worked in any way there would be no demand for illegal drugs as no one would have tried them before

Its not really an equivalent though is it, you aren't going to get 18-20 year olds trying to buy cigarettes on the black market to have on a night out in the same way they'd be getting class A's (or even weed).

If they're a hassle to get hold of, then you're going to drastically reduce the amount of casual smokers and young people getting addicted. Of course you'll not eradicate it.

In a selfish way I’m glad as I don’t like the smell or the rubbish it creates.
On the other hand I don’t like this kind of regulation as I always think well what next ?

Dave!

V8Granite wrote: Wed Nov 08, 2023 2:03 pm In a selfish way I’m glad as I don’t like the smell or the rubbish it creates.
On the other hand I don’t like this kind of regulation as I always think well what next ?

Dave!

Yeah, but Dave - chances are everyone on this forum will be old enough to carry on as we are and it's only our kids/grandkids who will be restricted.

ZedLeg wrote: Wed Nov 08, 2023 11:48 am The other way to do it would be to price it the same as weed. Currently at around £8 a gram, a small pouch of rolling tobacco would cost £200

It's going that way anyway, I got wasted with some old school mates back in April and to re-live those teenage years of sharing a fag on the playing fields we went to grab a pack of 20 plus a lighter and it cost £20

Aye, my partner still smokes. It's not cheap.

Jobbo wrote: Wed Nov 08, 2023 2:09 pm

V8Granite wrote: Wed Nov 08, 2023 2:03 pm In a selfish way I’m glad as I don’t like the smell or the rubbish it creates.
On the other hand I don’t like this kind of regulation as I always think well what next ?

Dave!

Yeah, but Dave - chances are everyone on this forum will be old enough to carry on as we are and it's only our kids/grandkids who will be restricted.

But it’s people my kids age who will be the ones banning me from rattling around in my old cars when I’m a pensioner with no rights

Dave!

Jobbo wrote: Wed Nov 08, 2023 2:09 pm

V8Granite wrote: Wed Nov 08, 2023 2:03 pm In a selfish way I’m glad as I don’t like the smell or the rubbish it creates.
On the other hand I don’t like this kind of regulation as I always think well what next ?

Dave!

Yeah, but Dave - chances are everyone on this forum will be old enough to carry on as we are and it's only our kids/grandkids who will be restricted.

let our kids smoke!!!

Rich B wrote: Wed Nov 08, 2023 3:14 pm

Jobbo wrote: Wed Nov 08, 2023 2:09 pm

V8Granite wrote: Wed Nov 08, 2023 2:03 pm In a selfish way I’m glad as I don’t like the smell or the rubbish it creates.
On the other hand I don’t like this kind of regulation as I always think well what next ?

Dave!

Yeah, but Dave - chances are everyone on this forum will be old enough to carry on as we are and it's only our kids/grandkids who will be restricted.

let our kids smoke!!!

Let them vape cannabis, as Marie Antoinette might have said if she'd lived in the 21st century.

ZedLeg wrote: Wed Nov 08, 2023 11:52 am

IanF wrote: Wed Nov 08, 2023 11:47 am Not a fan of control like this.. my stepson smokes but we actually feel that’s better than vaping as there’s less opportunity to actually smoke at school, the vaping cough his mates have are really shocking etc

Not sure about that tbh. I'm not a huge fan of the unregulated nature of vaping but smoking is still just inhaling a whole bunch of lethal chemicals with no real benefit.

Vaping is regulated. Quite strictly. It put a lot of cowboy vaping and vaping supply 'businesses' out of work thankfully, so most UK suppliers and vendors are a lot more tightly controlled. There are blind spots though (don't even start me on corner shops selling single use vapes....)

EU regs - Tobacco Products Directive:
https://health.ec.europa.eu/tobacco/pro ... rective_en

Which we transposed* into the Tobacco and Related Products regs
https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/201 ... tents/made

Things like selling to kids etc is covered by different regs IIRC - I've not looked at this in detail for years.

But if you want to sell your own e-liquid for example, you can't just make it in the back of your shop - you need an ISO certified clean room (not actually that hard to do objectively speaking, but there are costs attached and space considerations - you can't just do it in the back office kitchen) and strong stock and sales tracking control in case of bad batches, you need certification (at cost) to sell to wholesale for each flavour and strength, etc. Cost of doing four flavours in four strengths is deep into five figures if my memory serves right, and that's just for the paperwork - that doesn't include sorting out the clean room, getting your products regularly tested for contaminants, etc.

Basically, if you want to set up shop as an e-liquid outfit, you'd better fucking mean it, these days, cos it's not a simple task. And that's just the liquids, devices are their own kettle of carp.


*(really fucking badly because no cunt from the UK in the process actually read the act and didn't think e-cigs were even in them, because doing their job was, apparently, optional they literally implemented things like 2ml tanks that the UK local tobacco control people felt would be harmful to public health on the whole because it would discourage switching away from lit tobacco if you had to refill your tank constantly, and a max on 10ml bottle refils, which hugely increases the cost of liquids as you can't buy nicotine-containing liquids in 100ml bottles any more at a discount, etc. It was, in short, a shitshow, but by the time it was ignorantly just waved through uncritically, the damage was done. Brexit has done nothing to improve this, as I predicted to Brexiteer vape people at the time, because bashing smokers is politically popular, and as far as most people are concerned, vapers are smokers...)

Gavster wrote: Wed Nov 08, 2023 2:11 pm

ZedLeg wrote: Wed Nov 08, 2023 11:48 am The other way to do it would be to price it the same as weed. Currently at around £8 a gram, a small pouch of rolling tobacco would cost £200

It's going that way anyway, I got wasted with some old school mates back in April and to re-live those teenage years of sharing a fag on the playing fields we went to grab a pack of 20 plus a lighter and it cost £20

20g rolling tobacco $65.95 (33GBP) - criminal!

The govt are taxing fags into the ground. Which has the predictable effect of sending it underground.

What a suprise

https://www.9news.com.au/national/melbo ... 792e18101a

How many roll-ups would you get out of 20g?

How does that price compare to 20 cigarettes??

IanF wrote: Wed Nov 08, 2023 11:47 am I’d prefer we educate and allow people to make informed decisions,

Because that works really well! Off the top of my head, Boaty McBoatface and Brexit are fairly good signs that the general public can't be trusted.

Jimmy Choo wrote: Thu Nov 09, 2023 10:11 am

IanF wrote: Wed Nov 08, 2023 11:47 am I’d prefer we educate and allow people to make informed decisions,

Because that works really well! Off the top of my head, Boaty McBoatface and Brexit are fairly good signs that the general public can't be trusted.

I can't agree with that at all.

That line of thinking leads to a very dystopian future for all of us.

Swervin_Mervin wrote: Thu Nov 09, 2023 11:35 am

Jimmy Choo wrote: Thu Nov 09, 2023 10:11 am

IanF wrote: Wed Nov 08, 2023 11:47 am I’d prefer we educate and allow people to make informed decisions,

Because that works really well! Off the top of my head, Boaty McBoatface and Brexit are fairly good signs that the general public can't be trusted.

I can't agree with that at all.

That line of thinking leads to a very dystopian future for all of us.

TBF to Jimmy, the general public haven't really been showing ourselves to be trusted with important decisions recently

ZedLeg wrote: Thu Nov 09, 2023 12:33 pm

Swervin_Mervin wrote: Thu Nov 09, 2023 11:35 am

Jimmy Choo wrote: Thu Nov 09, 2023 10:11 am

Because that works really well! Off the top of my head, Boaty McBoatface and Brexit are fairly good signs that the general public can't be trusted.

I can't agree with that at all.

That line of thinking leads to a very dystopian future for all of us.

TBF to Jimmy, the general public haven't really been showing ourselves to be trusted with important decisions recently

But is that a symptom of measures implemented because we think they can't be trusted? By that I mean that the more you take decisions out of people's own hands, do you not run the risk of making people even less able to make decisions for themselves. A sort of mass institutionalisation.