OV9

Gavster wrote: Mon Sep 11, 2023 9:21 am
It would be nice to get back on the hifi train. One of my Sonus Faber speakers started making a buzzing noise and my Musical Fidelity power amp blew up last year. It's one of those luxuries that I rarely use, but exceedinly nice to have for those times when I want to disappear into some music.

Which SFs do you have?

I'm on my fourth pair but hard to find the passion for their current offerings so tempted to move away.

Thank you for reminding me that my hifi needs attention.

I'm still running a pair of B&W 602 S2s and a pair of 603 S2s, coupled with my massive Cerwyn Vega 12" stroker in a home-built in-wall enclosure. All run off a pair of Arcam Alphas, a Yamaha something receiver, and a Reckhorn power amp. I also installed a pair of Polk speakers into the wall in the middle of the room to shift the point of presence a bit.

But. One of the Arcams needs a refurb (the classic selector failure), my daughter has pinched the Cambridge Audio amp the powers the Polks, and I've never been truly happy with the Reckhorn that powers the sub (it's rated at 500W, but my sweaty arse it is - the sub could take double its power).

I've googled which B&Ws I had - DM610s, bought new in 1991. They replaced a set of Wharfedale Diamond IVs which a friend of mine had and still uses now. I supplemented the B&Ws in 1994 with a set of Mission 780SEs - I also bought a Pioneer turntable platter CD player around the same time, which I replaced by 1995 with a Marantz CD63 SE. The Marantz CD player, Mission speakers and a rather gorgeous looking Aura VA100 Evolution amp in chrome saw me through to 1998/99 when I was burgled and lost them all



Plenty of fun kit has been through my hands since but none of it has givem me as much joy - or indeed dissatisfaction - as the 1990s box-swapping. To be fair, that Aura amp never sounded quite as good as it looked, but the looks made up for it

GG. wrote: Mon Sep 11, 2023 10:52 pm

Gavster wrote: Mon Sep 11, 2023 9:21 am
It would be nice to get back on the hifi train. One of my Sonus Faber speakers started making a buzzing noise and my Musical Fidelity power amp blew up last year. It's one of those luxuries that I rarely use, but exceedinly nice to have for those times when I want to disappear into some music.

Which SFs do you have?

I'm on my fourth pair but hard to find the passion for their current offerings so tempted to move away.

Fourth pair

I only have the entry-level Toy Tower, bought them years ago after a friend showed me his Electa Amator IIIs which were amazing. Just love the Sonus Faber sound, it's so emotive.

Thats some niiiiice kit there!

Daughter who is 12 is just getting into music in a big way so as part of my penance for being in hospital for a chunk of the summer i've been sourcing her decent 2nd hand kit from local facebay market place so on sunday we went and collected a marantz 5005 amp, sony ps-hx500 turntable that does analogue -> digital conversion and a vintage philips CD player (i'm waiting to hear back from a seller about a teac R890 mkII though), they'll play through some mission speakers (can't remember model and not going upstairs to check) - she's very happy but has to clear her room up before i'll install it all

teacherboy wrote: Tue Sep 12, 2023 1:43 pm Thats some niiiiice kit there!

Daughter who is 12 is just getting into music in a big way so as part of my penance for being in hospital for a chunk of the summer i've been sourcing her decent 2nd hand kit from local facebay market place so on sunday we went and collected a marantz 5005 amp, sony ps-hx500 turntable that does analogue -> digital conversion and a vintage philips CD player (i'm waiting to hear back from a seller about a teac R890 mkII though), they'll play through some mission speakers (can't remember model and not going upstairs to check) - she's very happy but has to clear her room up before i'll install it all

The teenager has my old Kenwood KA-1080 amp and mission 731 bookshelf speakers in his room. both 1990's vintage.

Currently watching Stowaway with the sound running through the new setup.

The rocket launch sequence was pretty fucking intense….

I currently run a homemade gainclone amp with a pair of 90s JPW gold bookshelf and matching passive sub.
I've had B&W601 and 610s and these JPW measure (I have a calibration mic) better in my room than either set of B&W in the mid and top end, even though in an anechoic chamber the JPW have a very bright top end and not great boxy bass (no issue with the sub).
My favourite speakers I've ever owned were Wharfedale Dovedales. Huge 3 way things with 12in woofers, efficient, amazing clarity, but too big for growing family storage needs.

I was curious what medium you were all using as the input as I only use Sonos Playbar, 1’s (2) and amp for TV with one more playbar, one beam (?), 3 1’s plus 2 Roams for my house music needs. I’m not sure Apple Music would be improved by spending lots on, admittedly nice looking, speakers.

Edyooookate me please.

For those using digital sources, upgrading to a third party DAC is, IMO, the single best value overall improvement to the system - clearer, brighter and somehow meatier sound.

I used to have a Beresford Caimen (?) which I paid about £100 for new about 15 years ago. But my brother "borrowed" it for a back-to-back test and never gave it back. My replacement is an Arcam one, which while smaller and more convenient, isn't, IMO, acoustically as good (a little over-bright, I think)
A quick Google says the TC-7520 is the modern equivalent, although the old Caimens appear to still be available on EBay.

Gavster wrote: Tue Sep 12, 2023 10:20 am

GG. wrote: Mon Sep 11, 2023 10:52 pm

Gavster wrote: Mon Sep 11, 2023 9:21 am
It would be nice to get back on the hifi train. One of my Sonus Faber speakers started making a buzzing noise and my Musical Fidelity power amp blew up last year. It's one of those luxuries that I rarely use, but exceedinly nice to have for those times when I want to disappear into some music.

Which SFs do you have?

I'm on my fourth pair but hard to find the passion for their current offerings so tempted to move away.

Fourth pair

I only have the entry-level Toy Tower, bought them years ago after a friend showed me his Electa Amator IIIs which were amazing. Just love the Sonus Faber sound, it's so emotive.

I started with a part of Grand Piano Home, then sold them to my Grandad (where I got the HiFi bug from) to free up some cash and bought some cheap Quad 11Ls, then back to SF with the Toy when it came out, then a pair of Concertino Domus and for the past 7 years or so a pair of Cremona Auditor Ms (which are worth more now than when I bought them).

If your Toy Towers are malfunctioning and you want to change but keep to SF then I'd highly recommend finding a pair of Grand Piano Home (not Domus, which was later). When my grandad passed away last year I've re-inherited them and they still work perfectly.

To be honest the Auditors don't work well in my room as it is nearly square and with a rear firing port it took to moving to an amp with as much control as the Devialet to tame the bass and it still isn't as incisive as i'd like. I'm tempted with another pair of B&Ws like Mik, though there is a bit of a snob factor in moving back to a more "mainstream" brand, even if it is the 800 series. Plus it will involve spending thousands and although I do end up splurging on HiFi it is only very infrequently.

@IanF Too many variables really. Those in flats/apartments will have different needs to those living in the middle of nowhere - little point having the world's best system if you can barely ever raise the volume above voice levels.

Some folks want/need a dedicated "listening room". I don't have one of those (or a cinema room), so my system needs to fit around (and not unduly interfere with) my living room.

If it is simply too much to ask that next time you are working, you make a quick detour via GLA, and come and have a quick listen , then pop to a hi-fi shop with a listening room, and get them to demo something you can stream to with some half decent speakers and (unless you are like Jobbo) a sub.

Even Apple Music streams at 256kbs, which (imho) is plenty enough for you to hear the difference of a focussed system. Stick on a song that has real dynamic range (doesn't have to be modern stuff : Grace Jones - Slave To The Rhythm or Jill Scott - Gettin In The Way will do nicely - loads of others examples of course), and if it doesn't sound enuff bettah - you have your answer, for you.

While we're talking about audio stuff, I would gladly accept a recommendation for a new amp to power my sub.

It's an old generation 12" Cerwin Vega stroker - 4 ohms, and rated to 1200W RMS (I think), although in reality it's more like 1500/2k.
As mentioned above the 500W Reckhorn barely tickles the sides (although I reckon it's more like 300W in reality). I find myself *cheating* a bit and setting the crossover a bit higher than I'd ideally like to get the volume up and get the balance right, but this leaves the sub doing some of the work that the B&Ws really excel at. Ideally, I'd like to set the crossover *really* low at 50-55Hz-ish, let the rest of the system do what it's good at, and just leave the sub to deliver the "hand of god" stuff.

Ideally I'd like something that was comfortable in 4ohm mono or bridged, had an integrated adjustable crossover, delivered a *real* 700-800W RMS, and wasn't a million pounds. Don't care about looks, so a rack mount would be acceptable. Thank you please.

I have no need for this kind of set-up personally - I have a couple of Sonos's for the house and a really good Bose Mini Speaker for the garage or working outside.

However, I do appreciate the effort and value in investing in this sort of thing.

Sky's the limit really - a mate of mine used to install high end systems for millionaires / billionaires. I called him one time and he was in a Lift in New York, bringing £175k EACH speakers up to a Manhattan Loft Apartment

@Nefarious No real idea - that's more like pub/nightclub weaponry you are after.

Something like this?

They have one UK distributor who doesn't list it but could presumably get one?

edit: baws - I missed that the RMS power quoted is 500w

mik wrote: Wed Sep 13, 2023 9:40 am @IanF Too many variables really. Those in flats/apartments will have different needs to those living in the middle of nowhere - little point having the world's best system if you can barely ever raise the volume above voice levels.

Some folks want/need a dedicated "listening room". I don't have one of those (or a cinema room), so my system needs to fit around (and not unduly interfere with) my living room.

If it is simply too much to ask that next time you are working, you make a quick detour via GLA, and come and have a quick listen , then pop to a hi-fi shop with a listening room, and get them to demo something you can stream to with some half decent speakers and (unless you are like Jobbo) a sub.

Even Apple Music streams at 256kbs, which (imho) is plenty enough for you to hear the difference of a focussed system. Stick on a song that has real dynamic range (doesn't have to be modern stuff : Grace Jones - Slave To The Rhythm or Jill Scott - Gettin In The Way will do nicely - loads of others examples of course), and if it doesn't sound enuff bettah - you have your answer, for you.

You make a very good point about fitting your Hi-Fi around your room.
Understanding your room is important, my calibration mic + REW has shown me how badly a room colours the audio output, and that a flat response out of your speakers will rarely be flat by the time the sound waves have reflected off the wall and various room modes have added resonances. At a certain point you will have to address the room to get a better sound to your ears with equalisation and/or room treatment, choice of speakers, location. Cinemas and studios do this with specific shaping of the room (a luxury most do not have) and lots of damping on surfaces. You can also look at equalisation, being able to adjust levels, phase correct, notch filters will be needed in poor rooms.
Knowing how poor my room is, is a big reason why I've never spent more than budget, lower end of mid range on Hi-Fi, as it would be a huge jump in cost that I can't afford to get the electronics to make corrections for the room, and Jen won't let me start adding damping panels to walls !

NGRhodes wrote: Wed Sep 13, 2023 10:28 am

mik wrote: Wed Sep 13, 2023 9:40 am @IanF Too many variables really. Those in flats/apartments will have different needs to those living in the middle of nowhere - little point having the world's best system if you can barely ever raise the volume above voice levels.

Some folks want/need a dedicated "listening room". I don't have one of those (or a cinema room), so my system needs to fit around (and not unduly interfere with) my living room.

If it is simply too much to ask that next time you are working, you make a quick detour via GLA, and come and have a quick listen , then pop to a hi-fi shop with a listening room, and get them to demo something you can stream to with some half decent speakers and (unless you are like Jobbo) a sub.

Even Apple Music streams at 256kbs, which (imho) is plenty enough for you to hear the difference of a focussed system. Stick on a song that has real dynamic range (doesn't have to be modern stuff : Grace Jones - Slave To The Rhythm or Jill Scott - Gettin In The Way will do nicely - loads of others examples of course), and if it doesn't sound enuff bettah - you have your answer, for you.

You make a very good point about fitting your Hi-Fi around your room.
Understanding your room is important, my calibration mic + REW has shown me how badly a room colours the audio output, and that a flat response out of your speakers will rarely be flat by the time the sound waves have reflected off the wall and various room modes have added resonances. At a certain point you will have to address the room to get a better sound to your ears with equalisation and/or room treatment, choice of speakers, location. Cinemas and studios do this with specific shaping of the room (a luxury most do not have) and lots of damping on surfaces. You can also look at equalisation, being able to adjust levels, phase correct, notch filters will be needed in poor rooms.
Knowing how poor my room is, is a big reason why I've never spent more than budget, lower end of mid range on Hi-Fi, as it would be a huge jump in cost that I can't afford to get the electronics to make corrections for the room, and Jen won't let me start adding damping panels to walls !

I'm tempted by an amp with one of the DIRAC adjustment systems built in. Only downside though is I've always found that these systems generally negatively affect the sound overall. Same with the SAM bass extension adjustment thing on the Devialet.

Nefarious wrote: Wed Sep 13, 2023 9:57 am While we're talking about audio stuff, I would gladly accept a recommendation for a new amp to power my sub.

It's an old generation 12" Cerwin Vega stroker - 4 ohms, and rated to 1200W RMS (I think), although in reality it's more like 1500/2k.
As mentioned above the 500W Reckhorn barely tickles the sides (although I reckon it's more like 300W in reality). I find myself *cheating* a bit and setting the crossover a bit higher than I'd ideally like to get the volume up and get the balance right, but this leaves the sub doing some of the work that the B&Ws really excel at. Ideally, I'd like to set the crossover *really* low at 50-55Hz-ish, let the rest of the system do what it's good at, and just leave the sub to deliver the "hand of god" stuff.

Ideally I'd like something that was comfortable in 4ohm mono or bridged, had an integrated adjustable crossover, delivered a *real* 700-800W RMS, and wasn't a million pounds. Don't care about looks, so a rack mount would be acceptable. Thank you please.

Ive used the Matrix amps that Chris used to have. He had a 2 channel Matrix UKP2100 SMPS for powering the 18" subs. We could run these at full chat hours and they barely sniffed. 1050W per channel. Ran 2 x18" drivers on two channels to much loudness. Zero distortion and take a lot of power to clip the channels. Those would do you perfectly.

A further thought about your current amp - What are you driving it from at the line level? Some amps dont give full power unless you are driving them with a 5V input.

GG. wrote: Wed Sep 13, 2023 10:42 am I'm tempted by an amp with one of the DIRAC adjustment systems built in. Only downside though is I've always found that these systems generally negatively affect the sound overall. Same with the SAM bass extension adjustment thing on the Devialet.

A good equalisation system will have a net positive. I've not looked into DIRAC in detail, but it gets lots of positive feedback. I believe it works fully in the digital domain, which in theory should not lose any audio information like can happen with analog processing.
Don't forget speakers, the room colours the sound output and being able to correct and minimise these artifacts (when done accurately) will far outweigh any artifacts added by decent equalisation tools themselves (which will probably be low to non).
Getting some kind of feedback from the systems (such as seeing the level of corrections added) is very useful for improving things like speaker positioning, optimal seating position, making compromises for multiple seating positions or being able to tweak settings on a active sub.

scotta wrote: Wed Sep 13, 2023 10:50 am

Nefarious wrote: Wed Sep 13, 2023 9:57 am While we're talking about audio stuff, I would gladly accept a recommendation for a new amp to power my sub.

It's an old generation 12" Cerwin Vega stroker - 4 ohms, and rated to 1200W RMS (I think), although in reality it's more like 1500/2k.
As mentioned above the 500W Reckhorn barely tickles the sides (although I reckon it's more like 300W in reality). I find myself *cheating* a bit and setting the crossover a bit higher than I'd ideally like to get the volume up and get the balance right, but this leaves the sub doing some of the work that the B&Ws really excel at. Ideally, I'd like to set the crossover *really* low at 50-55Hz-ish, let the rest of the system do what it's good at, and just leave the sub to deliver the "hand of god" stuff.

Ideally I'd like something that was comfortable in 4ohm mono or bridged, had an integrated adjustable crossover, delivered a *real* 700-800W RMS, and wasn't a million pounds. Don't care about looks, so a rack mount would be acceptable. Thank you please.

Ive used the Matrix amps that Chris used to have. He had a 2 channel Matrix UKP2100 SMPS for powering the 18" subs. We could run these at full chat hours and they barely sniffed. 1050W per channel. Ran 2 x18" drivers on two channels to much loudness. Zero distortion and take a lot of power to clip the channels. Those would do you perfectly.

A further thought about your current amp - What are you driving it from at the line level? Some amps dont give full power unless you are driving them with a 5V input.

If you don't mind fan noise, any of the big name commercial amps should work for you - Electro-Voice and Crown XTi tend to be my default brands when doing commercial installs. If you don't mid spending a bit more (or need something silent) the Audio Control RS1000 is great.