OV9

Carlos wrote: Wed Sep 20, 2023 2:30 pm Nearly 300,000 people have signed a petition for the blanket 20 mph limit to be reconsidered in Wales. It seems NCG's in Wales were barely aware of it coming in!

What's even more bizarre is that most of the people I've spoken to about don't realise and in some cases won't believe that the roads are 20mph as there aren't any 20mph signs!

It's amazing how completely unaware so many people are as to what's going on around them. See also the Manchester CAZ - literally planned for years and only on the eve of it happening do people get up in arms about it, and it's been paused ever since. All the signage and cameras were already put up.

Carlos wrote: Wed Sep 20, 2023 2:30 pm What's even more bizarre is that most of the people I've spoken to about don't realise and in some cases won't believe that the roads are 20mph as there aren't any 20mph signs!

It's pretty stoopid to tell people "yeah we know the sign states 30, but from now on this is a 20 limit m'kay".

If you want to change the limit - change the feckin signs.

No signs in a 30 limit as it stands- a recognised sequence of street lighting in a residential area is 30 unless stated. Or 20 now in wales so no 20 signs

You still get 30 signs at the entrance to a 30 zone, just not everywhere within it.

I’m assuming most in wales still say 30 even though they’re actually 20.

I’ve never really got the reasons for not putting repeater signs on free flowing wide open 30mph roads anyway, just because of a certain streetlight and white line layout. What harm can the odd reminder sign attached to the occasional lamp post do?

integrale_evo wrote: Wed Sep 20, 2023 2:56 pm You still get 30 signs at the entrance to a 30 zone, just not everywhere within it.

Harry beat me to it.

The signs have been changed. They were put up and bagged over ready for the changeover.

jamcg wrote: Wed Sep 20, 2023 2:49 pm No signs in a 30 limit as it stands- a recognised sequence of street lighting in a residential area is 30 unless stated. Or 20 now in wales so no 20 signs

This is what has confused people, generally people seem to accept there is a new 20 limit but assume its 30 unless otherwise stated, therefore driving on the assumption it isn't 20 unless youve passed a 20 sign!

It doesn't help that people are stupid. Most don't understand the 30mph default without signage, so it's no surprise that they still don't understand it when the default is changed to 20mph.

When 1 person makes a mistake, it’s just a mistake.
When 2 people make a mistake, it’s just a mistake.
When hundreds of people make a mistake, it’s the process that’s at fault.

Dave!

V8Granite wrote: Wed Sep 20, 2023 4:08 pm When 1 person makes a mistake, it’s just a mistake.
When 2 people make a mistake, it’s just a mistake.
When hundreds of people make a mistake, it’s the process that’s at fault.

Dave!

No - it's just that people are as thick as mince Dave. If you've ever attended a DAC you'll be well aware of this.

V8Granite wrote: Wed Sep 20, 2023 4:08 pm When 1 person makes a mistake, it’s just a mistake.
When 2 people make a mistake, it’s just a mistake.
When hundreds of people make a mistake, it’s the process that’s at fault.

Dave!

I wouldn't discount the chance that it is hundreds of mistaken people.

Swervin_Mervin wrote: Wed Sep 20, 2023 4:14 pm

V8Granite wrote: Wed Sep 20, 2023 4:08 pm When 1 person makes a mistake, it’s just a mistake.
When 2 people make a mistake, it’s just a mistake.
When hundreds of people make a mistake, it’s the process that’s at fault.

Dave!

No - it's just that people are as thick as mince Dave. If you've ever had a conversation with anyone you'll be well aware of this.

FTFY

Swervin_Mervin wrote: Wed Sep 20, 2023 4:14 pm

V8Granite wrote: Wed Sep 20, 2023 4:08 pm When 1 person makes a mistake, it’s just a mistake.
When 2 people make a mistake, it’s just a mistake.
When hundreds of people make a mistake, it’s the process that’s at fault.

Dave!

No - it's just that people are as thick as mince Dave. If you've ever attended a DAC you'll be well aware of this.

But if you are dealing with Joe Public and John Q Citizen you need to plan your change controls & communications accordingly. If a huge number of people are unaware / unclear on the new rules then the above have been lacking.

See also the DVLA's communication around the highway code changes - fucking rubbish, leaving a huge chunk of NCGs (still) unaware.

mik wrote: Wed Sep 20, 2023 4:44 pm

Swervin_Mervin wrote: Wed Sep 20, 2023 4:14 pm

V8Granite wrote: Wed Sep 20, 2023 4:08 pm When 1 person makes a mistake, it’s just a mistake.
When 2 people make a mistake, it’s just a mistake.
When hundreds of people make a mistake, it’s the process that’s at fault.

Dave!

No - it's just that people are as thick as mince Dave. If you've ever attended a DAC you'll be well aware of this.

But if you are dealing with Joe Public and John Q Citizen you need to plan your change controls & communications accordingly. If a huge number of people are unaware / unclear on the new rules then the above have been lacking.

See also the DVLA's communication around the highway code changes - fucking rubbish, leaving a huge chunk of NCGs (still) unaware.

The rules around the application of 30mph and NSL limits have been around decades and most people still don't understand them, even though they have to learn them to get a licence.

The 20mph limit isn't magically different - it's simply the new default in built up areas. If you understand when a 30 limit applies then you'll understand when the 20 limit applies now in Wales. Hence most drivers won't have a clue.

Been out for dinner tonight with the family and my daughter drove home, great debate which I wont google.

After an end of motorway sign what's the speed limit?

Carlos wrote: Wed Sep 20, 2023 11:36 pm Been out for dinner tonight with the family and my daughter drove whome, great debate which I wont google.

After an end of motorway sign what's the speed limit?

NSL, I would think. I’m trying to think of a location where there isn’t a speed limit sign on the slip road though.

I genuinely don't know. We left the motorway which is a 50 section, we passed an end of motorway sign and then nothing for a 200m until a 50 repeater appeared.

I had gone with NSL as it was a dual carriageway and my daughter panicked as it wasn't clear until the repeater and had assumed 20!

Jobbo wrote: Wed Sep 20, 2023 11:39 pm

Carlos wrote: Wed Sep 20, 2023 11:36 pm Been out for dinner tonight with the family and my daughter drove whome, great debate which I wont google.

After an end of motorway sign what's the speed limit?

NSL, I would think. I’m trying to think of a location where there isn’t a speed limit sign on the slip road though.

Yeah if it's not indicating anything else, it continues as the NSL

ETA: wait, was it a smart motorway? I'd still go NSL, but then I can see 200m aswell

Local media is reporting that the police won't enforce the 20 for the foreseeable and will concentrate on education lol

Carlos wrote: Wed Sep 20, 2023 11:36 pm Been out for dinner tonight with the family and my daughter drove home, great debate which I wont google.

After an end of motorway sign what's the speed limit?

It depends whether it's a built up area or not. Most built up areas will be signed even for a 30 at the end of a slip. Where not you'd assume NSL.