OV9

Swervin_Mervin wrote: Mon Dec 05, 2022 11:38 am Not sure on the point you're trying to make about being airtight - they'll draw air in from the room, not out, until you open the door.

But they're not airtight - unless you clean them out you can smell the ash in the air when they're not lit. And because they use a lot of oxygen for proper combustion and to avoid carbon monoxide, they need to have a decent flow of air to them - i.e. you need to make sure there are draughts. And they need to be tested regularly to make sure they aren't poisoning you.

To be honest I think your post explains exactly the faff you're saying isn't there Holding your breath, burping it etc.

They create a lovely ambience, some really nice heat which can also feel nice with a window open, which doesn’t work so well with central heating.

It’s about 10 minutes work a week and making fires is enjoyable.

Dave!

Jobbo wrote: Mon Dec 05, 2022 12:04 pm

Swervin_Mervin wrote: Mon Dec 05, 2022 11:38 am Not sure on the point you're trying to make about being airtight - they'll draw air in from the room, not out, until you open the door.

But they're not airtight - unless you clean them out you can smell the ash in the air when they're not lit. And because they use a lot of oxygen for proper combustion and to avoid carbon monoxide, they need to have a decent flow of air to them - i.e. you need to make sure there are draughts. And they need to be tested regularly to make sure they aren't poisoning you.

To be honest I think your post explains exactly the faff you're saying isn't there Holding your breath, burping it etc.

They're airtight when not in use as the vents are shut!

Otherwise, I'm still not sure I see what your point is - yes, they draw in air when in use. That doesn't mean you need to live in a draughty house if that's what you're suggesting. Unless you live in a Passivhaus (which wouldn't have a chimney anyway) then you're not going to suffocate, or have to open a window to feed it.

Burping it is hardly a faff. Lift handle to let it equalise and then open fully to chuck another log on. As for holding your breath, it's a few seconds as you transfer the ash pan to the immediately adjacent ash bin. Not some 10min long free-dive

I get that you like yours, Mike. I think they're anachronisic, dirty and a faff, and nothing you have said has countered that. I did mention that I'd had one so it's not from lack of experience.

Jobbo wrote: Mon Dec 05, 2022 12:34 pm I get that you like yours, Mike. I think they're anachronisic, dirty and a faff, and nothing you have said has countered that. I did mention that I'd had one so it's not from lack of experience.

Whether I like it or not has nothing to do with trying to understand the odd points you seem to be trying to make, which appear to be based on experience of a fairly old-fashioned stove.

Do you not think it's a faff to have to squeeze a bottle of refined pee into your car every 2000 miles just to try and make it a bit less filthy for the environment?

There's some very old fashioned views here from people who I presume haven't used a modern stove and or don't know what type of wood to burn.

Modern stoves with secondary burn are 90% efficient, and a stove only works at full efficiency when you've got max air going into it, therefore you're best going for a smaller heat output stove and controlling temps with the type of wood you burn. If you reduce air intake you increase particulates and creosote buildup massively and end up with blackened stove glass. So many numpties did this that the government ended up introducing "DEFRA approved" stoves - which I shit you not have a screw to limit the air intake closure.

You don't empty the ash much on a modern stove, most of the ash goes out the flue. Some stoves don't even have a grate now as logs like to burn on their own ash and this only needs cleaning every few weeks, and even then you should leave a half inch of ash. It doesn't smell when off.
You can buy stoves which are properly sealed to the room as they have an external air supply, they're recommended in newer build stuff which is really air tight or if you have an extractor fan in that room - see external air supply stoves.

Swervin_Mervin wrote: Mon Dec 05, 2022 12:39 pm Do you not think it's a faff to have to squeeze a bottle of refined pee into your car every 2000 miles just to try and make it a bit less filthy for the environment?

Where's the well played smiley?

Mito Man wrote: Mon Dec 05, 2022 1:05 pm There's some very old fashioned views here from people who I presume haven't used a modern stove and or don't know what type of wood to burn.

Modern stoves with secondary burn are 90% efficient, and a stove only works at full efficiency when you've got max air going into it, therefore you're best going for a smaller heat output stove and controlling temps with the type of wood you burn. If you reduce air intake you increase particulates and creosote buildup massively and end up with blackened stove glass. So many numpties did this that the government ended up introducing "DEFRA approved" stoves - which I shit you not have a screw to limit the air intake closure.

You don't empty the ash much on a modern stove, most of the ash goes out the flue. Some stoves don't even have a grate now as logs like to burn on their own ash and this only needs cleaning every few weeks, and even then you should leave a half inch of ash. It doesn't smell when off.
You can buy stoves which are properly sealed to the room as they have an external air supply, they're recommended in newer build stuff which is really air tight or if you have an extractor fan in that room - see external air supply stoves.

This is very interesting. For a reasonably sized room what would say is worth looking at - for Mik (and me) links please

Got two modern burners and think they're ace. However I do cheat as can't be bothered to make up a fire from scratch every morning. I just use a flamefast with three or four bits of wood. Burns for about 3-4 hours that way with very little effort and lots of heat. Only clean ours out once a month, takes 10 minutes and get both serviced once a year.

There's just something hypnotic about watching a fire that never gets old. Plus it's Christmassy

Swervin_Mervin wrote: Mon Dec 05, 2022 12:39 pm Do you not think it's a faff to have to squeeze a bottle of refined pee into your car every 2000 miles just to try and make it a bit less filthy for the environment?

Fucking right, but I have to do that or pay £12 to drive into Birmingham and anywhere else with a ULEZ. So it's worth it. Not exactly a fair comparison.

Buying/cutting/storing logs is a faff. Lighting a fire is a faff, and you're never going to be able to light it so the house is warm when you wake up. If having a fire is enjoyable, have a real fire. Stoves are an odd affectation and I really don't understand them. It's not like many people have stoves which will heat the hot water tank or do anything else useful.

Well, this has turned into quite the heated discussion..

Barry wrote: Mon Dec 05, 2022 1:54 pm Well, this has turned into quite the heated discussion..

I can imagine you don't have one as your lego collection would melt

I've only recently put the heating on, never mind actual fire

Just buy a couple of them big oversized fleecy hoodies, much cheaper

I had a google and as expected, Mumsnet is full of discussion of wood burners. However, other than my dislike of them I didn't think there was anything particularly terribly about them. It seems there is; they may in fact be banned in some areas due to the air quality issues they cause, which was a surprise to me.

Interesting paper here about the particulates which remain in your house rather than go up the chimney: https://www.mdpi.com/2073-4433/11/12/1326

Broccers wrote: Mon Dec 05, 2022 1:37 pm This is very interesting. For a reasonably sized room what would say is worth looking at - for Mik (and me) links please

It's hard to say because it's rare that you just want to heat the one room which the stove is in. Hopefully you'll have double doors and the heat will circulate and warm almost every room in that floor of your house. 5kw is the lower end and 8-9kw is the upper end but 5kw will be sufficient to heat any room.

Of the decent brand stoves I've only got experience of Contura and Stovax. Contura is the Swedish go to brand which every Swede has (like Ikea beds and Volvos ) They've very good but pricey though and their modern design may not appeal.
I'm not as impressed with the Stovax as the cast iron needs repainting every year despite barely being used, and whoever did the efficiency test on it must have worked for VW previously because despite claiming to be as efficient as the Contura I can chuck a wheelbarrow of logs in it over a few hours whereas the Conturna only needs 2-3 logs per hour.

I've bought cheap stoves from Stoveworld https://www.stoveworlduk.co.uk/index.ph ... ommon/home to fit in sheds/log cabins etc, they're generally smaller so good for small rooms but I can't say how well they'll last long term as I've only had them for a year. Quality wise they feel the same as the Stovax tbh but do burn through less logs. They're cheap because they're built in China but all the design and testing is done in the UK.
(Also when I say cheap I swear all of these were half price a year ago - madness!)

I don't think they're banned in any areas at the moment - but you have to have DEFRA approved in smoke control areas. I'm not sure if the regs have changed recently though.

That makes for an interesting read, albeit there's still huge gaps in the study base - mainly what type of stoves were used and what was the moisture content of the wood. One person's seasoned wood is another person's wet wood (yes, I giess that's another faff ).

Has me wondering about trying one of those Enviro+ monitors. I wouldn't have a clue where to start with a Pi though!

Mito Man wrote: Mon Dec 05, 2022 2:35 pm

Broccers wrote: Mon Dec 05, 2022 1:37 pm This is very interesting. For a reasonably sized room what would say is worth looking at - for Mik (and me) links please

I've bought cheap stoves from Stoveworld https://www.stoveworlduk.co.uk/index.ph ... ommon/home to fit in sheds/log cabins etc, they're generally smaller so good for small rooms

I dont think we live in sheds

Holley wrote: Mon Dec 05, 2022 1:42 pm Plus it's Christmassy

Biased?

Swervin_Mervin wrote: Mon Dec 05, 2022 2:36 pm I don't think they're banned in any areas at the moment

They aren't, though in Smoke Control Areas (most areas within the boundary of mainly urban local authorities) the output is controlled. But there have been proposals since as long ago as 2017 for them to be banned completely, so potentially the tide will turn sufficiently at some point. I can't say I want them to be banned, though.