OV9

Rich B wrote: Fri Nov 18, 2022 7:08 am I don't really get it all, but I'm not bothered enough to kick up any sort of fuss.

This. Firmly in the IDGAF camp but then again I reckon 98% of people are. Silent majority as always.

Ascender wrote: Fri Nov 18, 2022 12:22 pm I will respect everyone's views, lifestyle choices etc so long as nobody is getting hurt.

So with that in mind, genuine question... what benefit to anyone is there by me putting my pronouns in a work email signature? For example...

It makes it common and normalises checking instead of assuming. To me it is no different to being polite and asking someone how to pronounce their name if you're not sure, so that you'll say it right in future.

As an example I've got one colleague who identifies as non-binary, has a male name, but female gender. Another colleague is female, but has a name that doesn't give you any indication whether she is a he/she/they. Helps everybody by having it clearly in the signature. We also have the option of adding name pronunciation which some use.

We looked at the Yaris GR4 as a possible upgrade for the UP GTI this morning and didn't order one. Yet.

PaulJ wrote: Fri Nov 18, 2022 12:42 pm We looked at the Yaris GR4 as a possible upgrade for the UP GTI this morning and didn't order one. Yet.

Wrong thread bro

Is the Yaris GR4 a woke car then?

Gavster wrote: Fri Nov 18, 2022 12:47 pm

PaulJ wrote: Fri Nov 18, 2022 12:42 pm We looked at the Yaris GR4 as a possible upgrade for the UP GTI this morning and didn't order one. Yet.

Wrong thread bro

Must try harder in future.

DeskJockey wrote: Fri Nov 18, 2022 12:40 pm

Ascender wrote: Fri Nov 18, 2022 12:22 pm I will respect everyone's views, lifestyle choices etc so long as nobody is getting hurt.

So with that in mind, genuine question... what benefit to anyone is there by me putting my pronouns in a work email signature? For example...

It makes it common and normalises checking instead of assuming. To me it is no different to being polite and asking someone how to pronounce their name if you're not sure, so that you'll say it right in future.

As an example I've got one colleague who identifies as non-binary, has a male name, but female gender. Another colleague is female, but has a name that doesn't give you any indication whether she is a he/she/they. Helps everybody by having it clearly in the signature. We also have the option of adding name pronunciation which some use.

But to ask again - what's the point when you could just use their name?

Pronouns are generally used in the 3rd person - I DGAF what someone refers to me as in my absence. This is what I don't get about it.

Apparently Finnish doesn't have gendered pronouns at all, so they find all this rather odd. I know you're not Finnish Alex but do you know if that's true at all (you're the closest we've got AFAIK)?

If you put yourself in the shoes of a NB person, it's disheartening when someone appears to respect their identity in their presence then ignores it the rest of the time. Chances are that if you don't refer to them by their preferred pronouns when they aren't there, you'll do it when they are there too.

ZedLeg wrote: Fri Nov 18, 2022 1:00 pm If you put yourself in the shoes of a NB person, it's disheartening when someone appears to respect their identity in their presence then ignores it the rest of the time. Chances are that if you don't refer to them by their preferred pronouns when they aren't there, you'll do it when they are there too.

But how would they know if they're not there? Unless someone's tell-taling. Who of us knows how how we're referred to by others in our absence - if anything there's probably worse pronouns/nouns used to refer to us

Tbh I'd just tend to refer to them as them or by their name anyway. Hence why I don't really get it I suspect.

I dont really get it, surprise. Re what people are called this was a howler on twitter last week. Some great names in here.

ZedLeg wrote: Fri Nov 18, 2022 12:28 pm we decided to start suggesting that everyone adds their preferred pronouns into their email sig so that it's normalised for any NB or trans staff.

Which is exactly why I put in there - it's all about Diversity and Inclusion across the board. It's not just about Gender identity

Having my pronouns might make someone feel more comfortable about coming out as Gay to me, or letting me know that they have mental health challenges etc. "Because he's the sort who has their pronouns in their signature"

Swervin_Mervin wrote: Fri Nov 18, 2022 1:03 pm

ZedLeg wrote: Fri Nov 18, 2022 1:00 pm If you put yourself in the shoes of a NB person, it's disheartening when someone appears to respect their identity in their presence then ignores it the rest of the time. Chances are that if you don't refer to them by their preferred pronouns when they aren't there, you'll do it when they are there too.

But how would they know if they're not there? Unless someone's tell-taling. Who of us knows how how we're referred to by others in our absence - if anything there's probably worse pronouns/nouns used to refer to us

Tbh I'd just tend to refer to them as them or by their name anyway. Hence why I don't really get it I suspect.

TBH I think as long as you aren't deliberately being a pure dick about not using someone's preferred pronouns then people will probably just leave you to it. For trans people especially being in a public space without someone being actively hostile towards them is becoming a novelty.

I'm in the RichB camp to the point where i had to Google Woke !

And Welsh people are fantastic at nicknames, I have a mate known as Dai Cockmag as he found half a soft porn magazine in the bushes on the way home from school when he was about 10

Helpful to know who to avoid at parties...

dinny_g wrote: Fri Nov 18, 2022 1:26 pm "Because he's the sort who has their pronouns in their signature"

Indeed...

Carlos wrote: Fri Nov 18, 2022 1:35 pm I'm in the RichB camp to the point where i had to Google Woke !

And Welsh people are fantastic at nicknames, I have a mate known as Dai Cockmag as he found half a soft porn magazine in the bushes on the way home from school when he was about 10

We called someone Sonic at school, to the point where teachers also called him that as it seemed entirely innocent. If only they knew that it came about as he was found pleasuring himself with a Sonicare toothbrush.

ZedLeg wrote: Fri Nov 18, 2022 1:27 pm

Swervin_Mervin wrote: Fri Nov 18, 2022 1:03 pm

ZedLeg wrote: Fri Nov 18, 2022 1:00 pm If you put yourself in the shoes of a NB person, it's disheartening when someone appears to respect their identity in their presence then ignores it the rest of the time. Chances are that if you don't refer to them by their preferred pronouns when they aren't there, you'll do it when they are there too.

But how would they know if they're not there? Unless someone's tell-taling. Who of us knows how how we're referred to by others in our absence - if anything there's probably worse pronouns/nouns used to refer to us

Tbh I'd just tend to refer to them as them or by their name anyway. Hence why I don't really get it I suspect.

TBH I think as long as you aren't deliberately being a pure dick about not using someone's preferred pronouns then people will probably just leave you to it

It only bothers me because i don't get it, tbh. I'm not actually bothered how someone wants to be referred to. I should care less


On the nickname thing - the best I can remember was a guy in my class whose name I don't think I ever knew. He was just Bing-Bong. He had a voice like an announcer at a rail station.

I had a mate who was called (real name Ian) Morris because he once said he liked Belle and Sebastian (folky indie band that someone said sounded like morris dancing music). Fast forward 10 years and even his mum called him Morris.

DeskJockey wrote: Fri Nov 18, 2022 12:40 pm

Ascender wrote: Fri Nov 18, 2022 12:22 pm I will respect everyone's views, lifestyle choices etc so long as nobody is getting hurt.

So with that in mind, genuine question... what benefit to anyone is there by me putting my pronouns in a work email signature? For example...

It makes it common and normalises checking instead of assuming. To me it is no different to being polite and asking someone how to pronounce their name if you're not sure, so that you'll say it right in future.

As an example I've got one colleague who identifies as non-binary, has a male name, but female gender. Another colleague is female, but has a name that doesn't give you any indication whether she is a he/she/they. Helps everybody by having it clearly in the signature. We also have the option of adding name pronunciation which some use.

Thanks for the explanation. I guess Im looking at this selfishly from my point of view where like you say, I'll ask someone how to pronounce their name when I first meet them. But very rarely will I have to refer to someone by their pronoun either in written or verbal communication. So yes, having pronouns in auto signatures would help in that scenario.

Whatever makes people feel happy & comfortable tbh.

I do feel a bit like Alan Partridge though when my brain tries to parse a comment like this... "...I've got one colleague who identifies as non-binary, has a male name, but female gender."

Rich B wrote: Fri Nov 18, 2022 2:27 pm I had a mate who was called (real name Ian) Morris because he once said he liked Belle and Sebastian (folky indie band that someone said sounded like morris dancing music). Fast forward 10 years and even his mum called him Morris.

My mates from school all refer to each other by our surnames, which ended up being so common that my mate's mum was going to introduce me to someone at his 40th and realised she didn't know my first name