OV9

Just because I was interested in the comparison, domestic heating oil provides 10.35kWh per litre. Currently a litre (delivered, with VAT) is a bit more than 82p in our area; it varies throughout the country and some people are getting it at more like 79p. Our Grant condensing oil boiler is apparently 93% efficient; that's better than I was expecting. Assume a real 70% as I have with gas (due to inefficiency in getting the heat round the house, not running constantly at peak efficiency etc) and it works out at about the same cost for heating at the gas cap up to yesterday, and about half the new gas cap announced today.

Jobbo wrote: Fri Aug 26, 2022 11:10 am

Broccers wrote: Fri Aug 26, 2022 10:34 am

jamcg wrote: Fri Aug 26, 2022 7:03 am They work the same as an immersion heater in a water cylinder, just the medium they heat is oil.

In terms of electrical input to heat output and transfer to a room fan heaters are more efficient as they actually circulate the heat around. Oil filled rads have always seemed pretty rubbish to me

We had a couple years ago when the heating was borked. I never looked into how much they cost to run v gas heating so it would be interesting to find out hard data. An oil filled rad works the same a water filled rad so not any worse or better in moving heat into a room.

Once warm / hot they stay hotter for longer.

Broccers, any electrical heater is 100% efficient at changing electrical energy into heat energy in the room. There is a smoothing effect by heating up a volume of oil rather than having the elements in the air, but the amount of heat in kWh they put out is exactly the amount of kWh they consume in electricity.

Gas central heating is not 100% efficient; a modern combi boiler can be 90% efficient at turning the energy from the gas into heat but I doubt anyone is quite achieving that in reality. Take 70% as a more realistic estimate. So 10kWh of gas consumed produces 7kWh of heat into your house.

Look at the prices: electricity is now capped at 52p/kWh against gas at 15p/kWh. To heat your house up with 7kWh of heat energy would cost £3.64 using electricity and £1.50 using gas. Gas is much cheaper per unit of energy, less than 1/3 the price of electricity, so it's simply a more cost effective way to heat your home.

Good bit of info. I know when I had a boutique designer flat in Leeds centre it cost an absolute fortune in leccy heating it as had high ceilings so figured electric wall heaters are the worst way to heat anything.

Maybe a few onesies and some big socks are the way forward this winter?

My fixed daily charge (for lekky) was £0.15 last year - if it goes up to £0.46 it’s only another £130-odds per year, but what’s the justification for that?

What they’re saying is cost of importing gas. I think there’s a certain amount of opportunism to it though.

Apparently beer would cost £25 a pint if it had gone up at the same rate as gas.

The fuel costs this winter combined with predictions that food prices will also continue to increase, makes this winter look pretty bleak, especially for those on low (or frankly, even average) income.

It really will see off many businesses who only just manage. Combination of big bills, interest hikes and c19 hangover will really be the final nail.

Plus strikes aren't helping anyone.

Good thread - I'm almost pleased our washing machine blew up last week and I've had to buy a new more efficient one

So how many pence per kWh do we reckon it will get to before the EU start to negotiate with Russia?
Can't see it rising much more beyond this winter. Just can't be sustained.

Broccers wrote: Thu Aug 25, 2022 5:36 pm Our local pub is in a fixed deal - they usually fix 3 or 5 years. Remember that theres no cap on businesses so when it ends he is really fucked at the predicted prices. So much so it's a quid on each pint just to stay at the same amount of income.

Carnage ahead and most people have no clue its coming.

Much of hospitality considered a risk now so some energy firms are asking for hefty upfront payments on new contracts, or just refusing to take them as customers. https://www.theguardian.com/business/20 ... -contracts

Has the potential to sink a lot of businesses - Metro story had a guy that runs a plastics manufacturing business and his factory energy bill will go from 900k to 6m. Bonkers.

mik wrote: Fri Aug 26, 2022 12:22 pm My fixed daily charge (for lekky) was £0.15 last year - if it goes up to £0.46 it’s only another £130-odds per year, but what’s the justification for that?

I read somewhere that it was to cover all the “energy supplier in a bedroom” companies that cropped up and had no way to cover a loss for any period. So it’s to pay back the losses after so many were bailed out.

Dave!

simon_g wrote: Fri Aug 26, 2022 1:03 pm

Broccers wrote: Thu Aug 25, 2022 5:36 pm Our local pub is in a fixed deal - they usually fix 3 or 5 years. Remember that theres no cap on businesses so when it ends he is really fucked at the predicted prices. So much so it's a quid on each pint just to stay at the same amount of income.

Carnage ahead and most people have no clue its coming.

Much of hospitality considered a risk now so some energy firms are asking for hefty upfront payments on new contracts, or just refusing to take them as customers. https://www.theguardian.com/business/20 ... -contracts

Has the potential to sink a lot of businesses - Metro story had a guy that runs a plastics manufacturing business and his factory energy bill will go from 900k to 6m. Bonkers.

Absolutely bang on. Most of joe public don't realise the implications (apart from london's finest like rich). It really is a massive issue.

Saying this I am all for huge (normal) interest rates killing everyone so I can buy their houses and retire somewhere nice and warm

Check this lot out - cut your cloth to live within your means has always been my mantra. 15 percent mortgage rates were the thing that stopped me lording it when I had some money. Unfortunately it's everyone elses fault when things get tough. Yes call me harsh but its very correct what I am saying.

Broccers wrote: Fri Aug 26, 2022 12:34 pm It really will see off many businesses who only just manage. Combination of big bills, interest hikes and c19 hangover will really be the final nail.

Plus strikes aren't helping anyone.

Good thread - I'm almost pleased our washing machine blew up last week and I've had to buy a new more efficient one

Wow, I'm getting myself an electric blanket

Jobbo wrote: Thu Aug 25, 2022 8:00 pm I’m happy that we use oil for heating and hot water at least.

Really?! Even at 86p/litre?

I'm moving out of this 500 year old EPC F-rated lunacy in a weeks time. Glad to see the back of £400/month on heating oil in the winter.

tim wrote: Fri Aug 26, 2022 2:15 pm

Jobbo wrote: Thu Aug 25, 2022 8:00 pm I’m happy that we use oil for heating and hot water at least.

Really?! Even at 86p/litre?

I'm moving out of this 500 year old EPC F-rated lunacy in a weeks time. Glad to see the back of £400/month on heating oil in the winter.

Yes, see my post at the top of this page. 86p/litre is cheap compared to 15p/kWh for gas; it works out at 8.3p/kWh for heating oil.

We’re scheduled to see another 50% rise in Jan taking the average bill to £5386 per annum. It’s an absolutely joke that the government allow this to happen, these are untenable increases.

Gavster wrote: Fri Aug 26, 2022 5:06 pm We’re scheduled to see another 50% rise in Jan taking the average bill to £5386 per annum. It’s an absolutely joke that the government allow this to happen, these are untenable increases.

You can move somewhere else dude

Broccers wrote: Fri Aug 26, 2022 5:55 pm

Gavster wrote: Fri Aug 26, 2022 5:06 pm We’re scheduled to see another 50% rise in Jan taking the average bill to £5386 per annum. It’s an absolutely joke that the government allow this to happen, these are untenable increases.

You can move somewhere else dude

Or I could stay where I am whilst simultaneously holding the opinion that these energy price cap rises are absolutely horrific. Better to stay and work through the problem, rather than run away from it. I’ve met enough ex pats to know that doesn’t work

Broccers wrote: Fri Aug 26, 2022 5:55 pm

Gavster wrote: Fri Aug 26, 2022 5:06 pm We’re scheduled to see another 50% rise in Jan taking the average bill to £5386 per annum. It’s an absolutely joke that the government allow this to happen, these are untenable increases.

You can move somewhere else dude

A cave with no electricity or heating? Nowhere is insulated from this. It is very much up to the government to address it - planning new power stations should have been done, that sort of thing.

Jobbo wrote: Fri Aug 26, 2022 7:10 pm

Broccers wrote: Fri Aug 26, 2022 5:55 pm

Gavster wrote: Fri Aug 26, 2022 5:06 pm We’re scheduled to see another 50% rise in Jan taking the average bill to £5386 per annum. It’s an absolutely joke that the government allow this to happen, these are untenable increases.

You can move somewhere else dude

A cave with no electricity or heating? Nowhere is insulated from this. It is very much up to the government to address it - planning new power stations should have been done, that sort of thing.

Plenty of cheaper places to live if you are like Gav and have no job in one location. Ex pats are normally fucking pisshead stupids but it is possible to be a working nomad successfully these days. I know many. I'm only here as my parents need a hand.

In fact they were offered a fix deal on their gas and lec for 1000 a month this week. Way above any cap. Thats criminal.

My 2 year fix (started 10/21) breaks down thus:

Elec:
20.69p/kwh SC 24.04p/d

Gas:
3.85p/kwh SC 26.12p/d

It was clear even back then that prices were rising but obviously no idea it would be as bad as this.

My house holds the heat super well, I've new window and doors, new boiler, new thermostats on many of the rads, Hive, etc, so my gas bill is really really under control right now.

It's the leccy where most of the spend goes, by far. Despite being whole LED through the house it's the phantom load that's actually quite high. I need to work on optimising the NAS and firewalls better. Also having the run the AC in the bedroom on anything hotter than a mild summer's day is adding to it.

The house is E/W so wouldn't benefit as much from Solar as some, but I think what would be good would be batteries in the garage and when the fix runs out then a switch to a night time focused tarriff so that we can charge up the batteries overnight and draw them down during the day.