OV9

Cheers for all the ideas.

Yeti I'd probably want the 1.8 Turbo for a bit of poke. Might be an older one for the amount of money that I'm thinking of.
CItigo: I persuaded a friend into a '66 plate one and she is happy with it (but likes her Mini more). Possibly not the warm hatch I am thinking of but I'd have one over a non-GTi Up! And not just to get 3 different Skodas on the driveway.
Zoe: This had crossed my mind as the previous shape one got decent reviews and had a reasonable range iirc. As you suggest, £50/month for 4,500 miles/yr battery lease looks about the same as it would cost for fuel for the same mileage, but yes it would be an interesting thing to run and to drive, in that EV way.

Rich B wrote: Fri Sep 25, 2020 6:40 pm

simon_g wrote: Fri Sep 25, 2020 5:40 pm Battery will be leased but the cost of that should be neutral compared to buying petrol. Explained well here: https://www.gogreenautos.co.uk/buyers-g ... -explained

so seeing as you then have to put electricity in too, they're more expensive to run...?

Depends what you’re comparing to but for many the lease is a bit less than fuel so it leaves a bit to cover the extra electricity.

I’d expect 35mpg is doing well for something like a Swift Sport on mostly shorter trips, so £900ish in fuel to do 6k miles a year.

Zoe battery lease for the same is £708. Say 4mi/kWh and a bit of charging loss and being pessimistic it’s about 2000kWh of power for the year. £100 on one of the cheap overnight (5p/kWh) tariffs, lots offer them now with smart meters.

The whole idea with battery leasing is you can have upfront price parity (which has pretty much held secondhand) but ongoing costs similar to an ICE car, or you can pay more upfront to own the battery but have much lower running costs. It was also to ease some of the early anxiety about battery degradation.

New Zoes are battery owned only.

simon_g wrote: Fri Sep 25, 2020 7:33 pm

Rich B wrote: Fri Sep 25, 2020 6:40 pm

simon_g wrote: Fri Sep 25, 2020 5:40 pm Battery will be leased but the cost of that should be neutral compared to buying petrol. Explained well here: https://www.gogreenautos.co.uk/buyers-g ... -explained

so seeing as you then have to put electricity in too, they're more expensive to run...?

Depends what you’re comparing to but for many the lease is a bit less than fuel so it leaves a bit to cover the extra electricity.

I’d expect 35mpg is doing well for something like a Swift Sport on mostly shorter trips, so £900ish in fuel to do 6k miles a year.

Zoe battery lease for the same is £708. Say 4mi/kWh and a bit of charging loss and being pessimistic it’s about 2000kWh of power for the year. £100 on one of the cheap overnight (5p/kWh) tariffs, lots offer them now with smart meters.

in summary, the Zoe is no cheaper than a similar sized car with a decent sized petrol engine. Yet is much slower, much less convenient. (And that's using very pessimistic mpg figures and very optimistic electricity figures).

Very different power/torque curves, the Zoe doesn’t feel anything like how a 89bhp ICE car does. Which is why I suggested trying one.

Inconvenient? I finding visiting petrol stations pretty inconvenient.

simon_g wrote: Fri Sep 25, 2020 8:26 pm Very different power/torque curves, the Zoe doesn’t feel anything like how a 89bhp ICE car does. Which is why I suggested trying one.

Inconvenient? I finding visiting petrol stations pretty inconvenient.

Christ, there's an 89bhp one?! I've just read that the 109bhp one does 0-60 in 11.4 seconds and tops out at 84mph!

But think of the savings.

Mito Man wrote: Fri Sep 25, 2020 8:34 pm But think of the savings.

Thats the point, there aren't any!

But think of the planet!

Think of the service station coffee shop turnover?

It’s entirely normal to stop every hour when you drive for a comfort break and refreshment so may as well charge the car as you do that

Fiesta st is the obvious choice. Maybe if you keep suggesting it she will get bored and agree or look into some influencing other techniques to make it her idea.

Else economics and buy something like https://www.jamespaul.co.uk/bmw-135i-m- ... ey-6644497

Rich B wrote: Fri Sep 25, 2020 8:35 pm

Mito Man wrote: Fri Sep 25, 2020 8:34 pm But think of the savings.

Thats the point, there aren't any!

What would Greta say though? Lol

Rich B wrote: Fri Sep 25, 2020 8:31 pm

simon_g wrote: Fri Sep 25, 2020 8:26 pm Very different power/torque curves, the Zoe doesn’t feel anything like how a 89bhp ICE car does. Which is why I suggested trying one.

Inconvenient? I finding visiting petrol stations pretty inconvenient.

Christ, there's an 89bhp one?! I've just read that the 109bhp one does 0-60 in 11.4 seconds and tops out at 84mph!

It’s interesting, we’ve spent our lives having a decent idea of how quick a car will feel or what it will be like to drive based on numbers like those. It doesn’t translate well to EVs, particularly for the humdrum everyday driving rather than attacking B-roads.

Not really used to dyno plots like this:



I have an EV for all the boring everyday stuff because I really like how they drive. Cost and eco considerations are much lower.

160lb/ft from literally zero is going to be an entertaining amount of torque around town, I imagine.


I can see the appeal for something you want to just do the boring stuff. I'll leave the economics to those who give enough of a toss about it

simon_g wrote: Fri Sep 25, 2020 9:20 pm

Rich B wrote: Fri Sep 25, 2020 8:31 pm

simon_g wrote: Fri Sep 25, 2020 8:26 pm Very different power/torque curves, the Zoe doesn’t feel anything like how a 89bhp ICE car does. Which is why I suggested trying one.

Inconvenient? I finding visiting petrol stations pretty inconvenient.

Christ, there's an 89bhp one?! I've just read that the 109bhp one does 0-60 in 11.4 seconds and tops out at 84mph!

It’s interesting, we’ve spent our lives having a decent idea of how quick a car will feel or what it will be like to drive based on numbers like those. It doesn’t translate well to EVs, particularly for the humdrum everyday driving rather than attacking B-roads.

Not really used to dyno plots like this:



I have an EV for all the boring everyday stuff because I really like how they drive. Cost and eco considerations are much lower.

Not much point explaining it to Rich - you may as well try to sell him a green-painted Tesla Model S

Shlergen wrote: Fri Sep 25, 2020 8:46 pm Fiesta st is the obvious choice. Maybe if you keep suggesting it she will get bored and agree or look into some influencing other techniques to make it her idea.

Else economics and buy something like https://www.jamespaul.co.uk/bmw-135i-m- ... ey-6644497

Imagine owning that back in 2010

Funnily enough the 130i is what I first had my eye on.

I think I’ve gone off the idea of a Pre-2019 Zoe. First the range on those wasn’t so good and second I just spotted the damn audio control stalk which is the same one I had in my Megane and it drove me mental.

simon_g wrote: Fri Sep 25, 2020 9:20 pm

Rich B wrote: Fri Sep 25, 2020 8:31 pm

simon_g wrote: Fri Sep 25, 2020 8:26 pm Very different power/torque curves, the Zoe doesn’t feel anything like how a 89bhp ICE car does. Which is why I suggested trying one.

Inconvenient? I finding visiting petrol stations pretty inconvenient.

Christ, there's an 89bhp one?! I've just read that the 109bhp one does 0-60 in 11.4 seconds and tops out at 84mph!

It’s interesting, we’ve spent our lives having a decent idea of how quick a car will feel or what it will be like to drive based on numbers like those. It doesn’t translate well to EVs, particularly for the humdrum everyday driving rather than attacking B-roads.

Not really used to dyno plots like this:



I have an EV for all the boring everyday stuff because I really like how they drive. Cost and eco considerations are much lower.

That torque curve IS the reason I find them dull. It’s the reason I sold my diesel golf. Blah blah practical but when you accelerate and think ooh that’s nice, you ask for more and there is nothing left.

We looked at the Zoe lease deals, I think it was 180 a month in total and 6000 miles a year, we would equal the fuel costs in our Audi TT not including charging but obviously it was brand new, warranty etc. It was just joyless.

Also I found having to listen to music was a pain as without the background hum of an engine the normal road noises, car interior noises etc were annoying.

Compared to a 60hp super mini it is absolutely no contest for us.

I think things change if you regularly drive into a town, parking charges, congestion zones, heavy traffic etc.

Dave!

1-Series or the Swift sound good to me.

Surprised you're considering an up! as a family car as the kids get bigger, aren't they *tiny* ?