OV9

However interesting that is and informative of Tory v Labour bias on overall spending, it is of no relevance whatsoever if you are actually basing your judgment on fiscal prudence, not a generic historical view of what has been, but on the facts of what Corbyn and McDonnell are intending to do.

GG. wrote: Wed Nov 27, 2019 12:48 pm However interesting that is and informative of Tory v Labour bias on overall spending it is of no relevance whatsoever if you are actually basing your judgment on fiscal prudence, not a generic view of what's been, but the facts of what Corbyn is intending to do.

If only that level of intellectual rigor had been applied to the referendum pledges (not having a go at you).

GG is one of those people who comments on the Daily mail website about how terrified they are of a Corbyn government .

GG. wrote: Wed Nov 27, 2019 12:48 pm However interesting that is and informative of Tory v Labour bias on overall spending, it is of no relevance whatsoever if you are actually basing your judgment on fiscal prudence, not a generic historical view of what has been, but on the facts of what Corbyn and McDonnell are intending to do.

On that basis I'm balancing out Brexit, rape of the NHS & rampant nationalism vs nationalisation and more spending on the things I care about. It's not a tough call, to be honest.

ZedLeg wrote: Wed Nov 27, 2019 12:52 pm GG is one of those people who comments on the Daily mail website about how terrified they are of a Corbyn government .

He might have to pay £20 a month more in tax! Imagine the devastation that would cause!

Only if he's on the national average salary of £80k a year .

VAT on school fees would cost me £227.20 a month in extra tax immediately so I think your figures are probably a bit out. Which of course in the context of this whole conversation is not unexpected.

There are many people earning less than £80k that send their kids to private school. If they have several they're probably going to have to pull their kids out of the schools they're currently in immediately and try and find state sector places.

You can try and kid yourself it won't cause big changes, but it isn't true.

GG. wrote: Wed Nov 27, 2019 12:58 pm VAT on school fees would cost me £227.20 a month in extra tax immediately so I think your figures are probably a bit out. Which of course in the context of this whole conversation is not unexpected.

My heart bleeds

GG. wrote: Wed Nov 27, 2019 12:58 pm VAT on school fees would cost me £227.20 a month in extra tax immediately so I think your figures are probably a bit out. Which of course in the context of this whole conversation is not unexpected.

There are many people earning less than £80k that send their kids to private school. If they have several they're probably going to have to pull their kids out of the schools they're currently in immediately and try and find state sector places.

You can try and kid yourself it won't cause big changes, but it isn't true.

But that's your choice, to use private education.

GG. wrote: Wed Nov 27, 2019 12:39 pm @Beany: So you're betting on a Corbyn minority government to produce deadlock, delay and rancour. Sounds like just what the country needs.

Obviously you're actions could also result in a Labour majority if enough people share the same misguided view, and then you of course will get the nationalisations he's promised.

Even Plan B without any legal changes which would be required to nationalise industries would almost certainly be to borrow and spend like crazy which would still crash the economy. Great stuff.

No, I'm ignoring the easy taking points that get certain members of the public frothy mouthed but which are functionally meaningless because they're really rather unlikely to happen (unless you think a bunch of stoner faux Marxists have more lobbying power than, say, fucking Eon), and looking at actual issues, that matter like us having a benefits system that is supposed to support those who are in the most precarious positions in their lives, not try to make them destitute.

You really are breathtakingly easily taken in by Trumpian press releases, aren't you?

Those poor kids, being forced to go into state education. Maybe we could use the additional tax raised from the VAT to improve the state schools?

NotoriousREV wrote: Wed Nov 27, 2019 1:02 pm Those poor kids, being forced to go into state education. Maybe we could use the additional tax raised from the VAT to improve the state schools?

That’s communism

DeskJockey wrote: Wed Nov 27, 2019 1:01 pm

GG. wrote: Wed Nov 27, 2019 12:58 pm VAT on school fees would cost me £227.20 a month in extra tax immediately so I think your figures are probably a bit out. Which of course in the context of this whole conversation is not unexpected.

There are many people earning less than £80k that send their kids to private school. If they have several they're probably going to have to pull their kids out of the schools they're currently in immediately and try and find state sector places.

You can try and kid yourself it won't cause big changes, but it isn't true.

But that's your choice, to use private education.

A choice that I'm quite confident 90% of the public don't have, and never will have.

[mention]GG.[/mention] Give me one good reason (by which I mean good for the country) why VAT shouldn't be charged on school fees, given it's applied to many things that are essential and whose purchase is not really optional.

Beany wrote: Wed Nov 27, 2019 1:04 pm

DeskJockey wrote: Wed Nov 27, 2019 1:01 pm

GG. wrote: Wed Nov 27, 2019 12:58 pm VAT on school fees would cost me £227.20 a month in extra tax immediately so I think your figures are probably a bit out. Which of course in the context of this whole conversation is not unexpected.

There are many people earning less than £80k that send their kids to private school. If they have several they're probably going to have to pull their kids out of the schools they're currently in immediately and try and find state sector places.

You can try and kid yourself it won't cause big changes, but it isn't true.

But that's your choice, to use private education.

A choice that I'm quite confident 90% of the public don't have, and never will have.

Correct. No problem with people spending their money on private education, just don't pretend it is worthy of charity status. The schools are businesses, short and simple.

Businesses which reduce your need for state spending and employ lots of people, yes.

It's exactly the same as private healthcare - also exempt from VAT - though I'm sure of course that would probably go in the long run too in our new socialist nirvana.

DeskJockey wrote: Wed Nov 27, 2019 1:08 pm

Beany wrote: Wed Nov 27, 2019 1:04 pm

DeskJockey wrote: Wed Nov 27, 2019 1:01 pm

But that's your choice, to use private education.

A choice that I'm quite confident 90% of the public don't have, and never will have.

Correct. No problem with people spending their money on private education, just don't pretend it is worthy of charity status. The schools are businesses, short and simple.

Completely ignoring the significant charitable work that many do actually do. I'm not saying all do, and that it isn't a dodge for some, but yours is a sweeping generalisation.

Those parents will also still be paying tax to fund the school system that they don't make use of.

Yep - I took my son for swimming lessons at a local private school (not the one my son attends) last Saturday as it is open to all at the weekend.

Unfortunately it's all just the politics of envy, little else.

GG. wrote: Wed Nov 27, 2019 1:10 pm Businesses which reduce your need for state spending and employ lots of people, yes.

It's exactly the same as private healthcare - also exempt from VAT - though I'm sure of course that would probably go in the long run too in our new socialist nirvana.

I'd rather the teachers work in the public sector schools for the good of all than the few. Don't forget they also get funding from government.

But why should you force them to? That's their choice. You can't coerce people only to work in the state sector.

In historical terms, all this stuff is extremely hard left politics - the kind of which is not common barely anywhere in the developed world.