OV9

integrale_evo wrote: Wed Dec 06, 2023 11:16 am My x5 has had a ridiculous number of owners for an 18 year old car. The car itself seemed ok and I didn’t think to check. Then the v5 arrived

Gavster's Smart has thirteen previous owners but I've been right over it and the stuff that needed fixing was just age-related, it could have had two owners or twenty.

integrale_evo wrote: Wed Dec 06, 2023 11:16 am ...I guess the more something has had the higher the chance of passing through a cheapskate bodger.

OTOH, the complete opposite is also possible - the more it's had, the higher chance one of them actually cared enough to fix a bunch of stuff the previous <x> owners had ignored. Gav's car right now is in a much better state than when it had 12, 11, 10 previous owners.

My last M3 had 9 previous owners. I couldn't give a shit, so long as the car is good and the history is thorough. 6/9 decent owners is better than 1/1 bad one imo.

Explosive Newt wrote: Wed Dec 06, 2023 11:17 am Seems like you have only had it five minutes (although life is a timewarp in my late* 30s). How come the sale?

Just over two years ! Oct 2021.

viewtopic.php?t=11287

Reason is genuinely as per the ad - it's an old car and needs to be kept indoors to preserve it. It lives under a cover at the moment but it's a bit crap and this time of year is constantly damp. Mechanically it's good but the paint is deteriorating and I'm not going to try tackling that. It's a pragmatic decision. I know I'll miss it when the weather picks up again in the spring.

Exactly. # of owners tells me precisely fuck all.

Rich B wrote: Wed Dec 06, 2023 11:40 am My last M3 had 9 previous owners. I couldn't give a shit, so long as the car is good and the history is thorough. 6/9 decent owners is better than 1/1 bad one imo.

All of that.

When i Was selling the S1 Elise I had some bellend sucking air over it having 5 previous owners. It was a fucking 1999 car. ETA - I've just remembered without a hint of irony he was concerned about this as he thought it might make it more difficult to sell if he only kept it for a year...

Im owner 6 on the current Elise. Through various forums and owners groups i've found 3 or 4 of the previous owners.

mik wrote: Wed Dec 06, 2023 11:43 am Exactly. # of owners tells me precisely fuck all.

Just to be contrarian - my GTS has had one prior owner and that is something of merit. I know the first owner paid £100k+ for the car and from his address I can see from past receipts that he lives/lived in a massive house with pool down in Surrey and would have had no problem maintaining it over the first 7 years of its life. It had done decent miles but I expect was used predominantly by his wife (stereotype alert) as his drive has several other cars / SUVs on it. That is a completely different kettle of fish to it having had 5 owners who you would have no idea who they were, that each ragged it for 12 months and then flipped it on. Even just knowing it wasn't a central London car (irony alert again ) is a plus.

You could argue that it is less important for a car like the GTS anyway as the bottom of its depreciation curve (at least to date) was c.70%/£70k so impecunious former owners would be less of a problem. One thing we can agree on is that when it comes to an ancient piece of Americana, it doesn't make any difference whatsoever!!

If I see a car with lots of owners, I automatically assume there is a problem with the car, either it's shit to drive once the honeymoon period is over (Emira?) or the car has an expensive bill looming and once discovered by the owner, it is patched up and treated like a hot potato.

This is despite the fact that I have flipped almost 50 cars over the years, owning some for mere weeks at a time.

GG. wrote: Wed Dec 06, 2023 12:17 pm It had done decent miles but I expect was used predominantly by his wife (stereotype alert) as his drive has several other cars / SUVs on it.

Also contrarian alert - why would his wife necessarily be the one clocking up the miles ? More likely IMO it clocked up the miles commuting into London.

Sundayjumper wrote: Wed Dec 06, 2023 11:27 am

integrale_evo wrote: Wed Dec 06, 2023 11:16 am My x5 has had a ridiculous number of owners for an 18 year old car. The car itself seemed ok and I didn’t think to check. Then the v5 arrived

Gavster's Smart has thirteen previous owners but I've been right over it and the stuff that needed fixing was just age-related, it could have had two owners or twenty.

integrale_evo wrote: Wed Dec 06, 2023 11:16 am ...I guess the more something has had the higher the chance of passing through a cheapskate bodger.

OTOH, the complete opposite is also possible - the more it's had, the higher chance one of them actually cared enough to fix a bunch of stuff the previous <x> owners had ignored. Gav's car right now is in a much better state than when it had 12, 11, 10 previous owners.

My theory with my Smart is that it's been bumped between a lot of owners in the last few years as the potentially expensive problems mounted up. E.g. the turbo stopped working, which was an easy fix, but a garage is always going to say it could be expensive. People would have quickly given up on it. It's done barely any mileage since sometime around 2018 when it went without an MOT for 6 months. We worked out that the repairs Steve did on the car would easily be £2.5K at a garage, on a car that's worth £1k when fixed. It's probably in a better state now than it has been for 5+ years.

Someone owns a car, decides that a £1000 service is pricey, sees a cost to change and trades it in. You just have more chances for bad owners and poor servicing.

At the age I buy cars at though it’s completely down condition. On something newer it would put me off though and make me think I’d bought a lemon.

Dave!

V8Granite wrote: Wed Dec 06, 2023 12:47 pm Someone owns a car, decides that a £1000 service is pricey, sees a cost to change and trades it in. You just have more chances for bad owners and poor servicing.

if a car needs a £1k service, chances are it'll sell for a lot less than it's worth and the buyer will put it through the service. If it hasn't had the service, then it'll have a big fat hole in the service history.

Sundayjumper wrote: Wed Dec 06, 2023 12:41 pm

GG. wrote: Wed Dec 06, 2023 12:17 pm It had done decent miles but I expect was used predominantly by his wife (stereotype alert) as his drive has several other cars / SUVs on it.

Also contrarian alert - why would his wife necessarily be the one clocking up the miles ? More likely IMO it clocked up the miles commuting into London.

I think it’s more likely that - with other stuff to play with - it was used purely as his track day toy and muddy-field race car (in a series where you have to run through the mud to your car - in your wellies - start it up and then race it hard from stone cold)

Depends on the age tbh, I'd agree that on something less than about 10 to 15 years old, having that record is important.

Anything older, know what to look for (just obvious stuff, is it blowing smoke or steam, is anything sticking/rattling etc) and buy on condition.

Rich B wrote: Wed Dec 06, 2023 12:55 pm

V8Granite wrote: Wed Dec 06, 2023 12:47 pm Someone owns a car, decides that a £1000 service is pricey, sees a cost to change and trades it in. You just have more chances for bad owners and poor servicing.

if a car needs a £1k service, chances are it'll sell for a lot less than it's worth and the buyer will put it through the service. If it hasn't had the service, then it'll have a big fat hole in the service history.

if a car needs a £1k service, chances are it'll get traded in for a lot less than it's worth and the garage will pretend to put it through the service. If it hasn't got a stamp in the book, then it'll have a big fat hole in the service history.

I think it depends on the car, performance cars/convertibles, 1 owner per year isn’t unusual. If you want something boring for commuting then it’s a bit of a red flag with regards to reliability. If a car is only a year old and has had 3 owners already it’s likely to be a lemon.

Sundayjumper wrote: Wed Dec 06, 2023 12:41 pm

GG. wrote: Wed Dec 06, 2023 12:17 pm It had done decent miles but I expect was used predominantly by his wife (stereotype alert) as his drive has several other cars / SUVs on it.

Also contrarian alert - why would his wife necessarily be the one clocking up the miles ? More likely IMO it clocked up the miles commuting into London.

Possible of course, but very unlikely you'd use it for that versus some of the more appropriate cars that were parked in the drive. Very few people living in the commuter belt would regularly make the journey in by car anyway. It would be slower, more painful and there's of course typically nowhere to park when you get in.

Sundayjumper wrote: Wed Dec 06, 2023 1:15 pm

Rich B wrote: Wed Dec 06, 2023 12:55 pm

V8Granite wrote: Wed Dec 06, 2023 12:47 pm Someone owns a car, decides that a £1000 service is pricey, sees a cost to change and trades it in. You just have more chances for bad owners and poor servicing.

if a car needs a £1k service, chances are it'll sell for a lot less than it's worth and the buyer will put it through the service. If it hasn't had the service, then it'll have a big fat hole in the service history.

if a car needs a £1k service, chances are it'll get traded in for a lot less than it's worth and the garage will pretend to put it through the service. If it hasn't got a stamp in the book, then it'll have a big fat hole in the service history.

to be fair, that could be the case with a one owner car too.

Another reason why I prefer to buy cars privately in general!

GG. wrote: Wed Dec 06, 2023 1:17 pm

Sundayjumper wrote: Wed Dec 06, 2023 12:41 pm

GG. wrote: Wed Dec 06, 2023 12:17 pm It had done decent miles but I expect was used predominantly by his wife (stereotype alert) as his drive has several other cars / SUVs on it.

Also contrarian alert - why would his wife necessarily be the one clocking up the miles ? More likely IMO it clocked up the miles commuting into London.

Possible of course, but very unlikely you'd use it for that versus some of the more appropriate cars that were parked in the drive. Very few people living in the commuter belt would regularly make the journey in by car anyway. It would be slower, more painful and there's of course typically nowhere to park when you get in.

One of my mates lives and works in central London, he regularly takes his 911 from his flat to the office, I think he just likes to feel like a big deal. It's certainly not the most efficient way to get the journey done!

If I had your car and money wasn't a concern, no way I'm picking up the keys to an SUV to go to London.

duncs500 wrote: Wed Dec 06, 2023 1:57 pm If I had your car and money wasn't a concern, no way I'm picking up the keys to an SUV to go to London.

Its a defensive strategy - when you're driving the SUV there is less time available for it to be stolen...

This is probably a subject of a separate conversation but the denouement of the whole Range Rover situation is probably on the horizon... It is looking like the insurance may well spiral from 'ridiculous' to 'unavailable' at the next renewal (June '24) so I will be forced to do something with it in the New Year. Values also seem to be in freefall so sooner rather than later may be the reality.

Question is what do you replace it with. I ran quotes for X5s, Cayennes, etc. and they're all silly. That added to the fact the 911 insurance may also be increasing be a third. A third increase from a base of nearly £2k...

Apparently average premiums for inner London now stand at £1,500 p.a. so it doesn't look like any of this is exceptional or likely to change

Standard protocol seems to be to buy a mansion as a weekend home within a commutable distance to London, have 12 cars all insured at the mansion's cheap countryside address and drive one car each week to the London gaff. Man maths.