OV9

Sundayjumper wrote: Mon Jan 27, 2025 8:29 pm Well that’s a curious turn of events.


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Maybe he misunderstood what it meant to be pardoned for his crime(s) and thought he was now above the law like Donny?

ZedLeg wrote: Mon Jan 27, 2025 2:56 pm I think telling people they have to vote for someone is undemocratic tbh.

I wouldn’t want compulsory voting like Australia has.

Strongly disagree with that, our/Aussie system is not perfect, but.

I think your contention that compulsory democracy is undemocratic has strong parallels with the intolerance of intolerance argument.

That you MUST participate in the process leaves little room for any argument that you may not participate in the process. (as used effectively in the US to exclude many people from voting).

If you don’t want to vote then that’s fine, if you can’t bring yourself to help either party that’s fine, it’s wrong to force someone to decide who they back if they don’t back anyone.

Dave!

One argument about why the left rarely gains power is that once you go to the left of centre in politics, the spectrum of individual positions, allegiances and political philosophies is so broad that it leads to many parties and subgroups who refuse to support each other, meaning the conservatives usually romp home again.

Gavster wrote: Tue Jan 28, 2025 8:11 am One argument about why the left rarely gains power is that once you go to the left of centre in politics, the spectrum of individual positions, allegiances and political philosophies is so broad that it leads to many parties and subgroups who refuse to support each other, meaning the conservatives usually romp home again.

Exactly Zed's point. Abstaining on principle rather than collaborating and Getting Stuff Done.

MAGA et al actively push disinformation to encourage that kind of non-voting.

Sundayjumper wrote: Tue Jan 28, 2025 9:39 am MAGA et al actively push disinformation to encourage that kind of non-voting.

And if voting were compulsory, what effect do you think this would have?

DaveE wrote: Mon Jan 27, 2025 9:53 pm

Sundayjumper wrote: Mon Jan 27, 2025 8:29 pm Well that’s a curious turn of events.


IMG_3522.jpeg

Maybe he misunderstood what it meant to be pardoned for his crime(s) and thought he was now above the law like Donny?

Wasn’t another busted for gun charges and a third is at large being hunted after soliciting a minor?

Just criminals doing criminal things.


Oh and one of them is a child pornographer.

Sundayjumper wrote: Tue Jan 28, 2025 9:39 am

Gavster wrote: Tue Jan 28, 2025 8:11 am One argument about why the left rarely gains power is that once you go to the left of centre in politics, the spectrum of individual positions, allegiances and political philosophies is so broad that it leads to many parties and subgroups who refuse to support each other, meaning the conservatives usually romp home again.

Exactly Zed's point. Abstaining on principle rather than collaborating and Getting Stuff Done.

MAGA et al actively push disinformation to encourage that kind of non-voting.

People on the left collaborate all the time. What you’re saying is we should work with people we find repugnant just for the sake of power.

Power hungry people with no principles are the problem, can’t see how they're the solution as well.

ZedLeg wrote: Tue Jan 28, 2025 10:15 am Power hungry people with no principles are the problem, can’t see how they're the solution as well.

Whilst I agree with the sentiment, people who are not somewhat hungry for power are not likely to have the wherewithal to get elected to senior office.

Proposal for 100% tariffs on Taiwan so I hope you're happy with your consumer electronics, or solid chance you'll be spending a lot more on them in future.

https://www.pcmag.com/news/trump-to-tar ... eting-tsmc

Unsurprisingly, no, the USA doesn't have anywhere near the capacity to take up the slack when it comes to advanced lithography processes that modern electronics demand so guess who it'll hit hardest?

ZedLeg wrote: Tue Jan 28, 2025 10:15 am

Sundayjumper wrote: Tue Jan 28, 2025 9:39 am

Gavster wrote: Tue Jan 28, 2025 8:11 am One argument about why the left rarely gains power is that once you go to the left of centre in politics, the spectrum of individual positions, allegiances and political philosophies is so broad that it leads to many parties and subgroups who refuse to support each other, meaning the conservatives usually romp home again.

Exactly Zed's point. Abstaining on principle rather than collaborating and Getting Stuff Done.

MAGA et al actively push disinformation to encourage that kind of non-voting.

People on the left collaborate all the time. What you’re saying is we should work with people we find repugnant just for the sake of power.

Power hungry people with no principles are the problem, can’t see how they're the solution as well.

It's called realpolitik.

Anyway, forgive me if I'm wrong, but it sounds like you're frustrated that a small minority party which you support hasn't gained some kind of majority rule? If so, that sounds undemocratic in itself?

That’s a stretch in that I’ve expressed no such thing.

duncs500 wrote: Tue Jan 28, 2025 11:10 am

ZedLeg wrote: Tue Jan 28, 2025 10:15 am Power hungry people with no principles are the problem, can’t see how they're the solution as well.

Whilst I agree with the sentiment, people who are not somewhat hungry for power are not likely to have the wherewithal to get elected to senior office.

It’s not the hunger for power in itself that’s the issue.

People can want power to effect change, which is what politics is supposed to be for.

The problem is people wanting power for the sake of power and personal enrichment. These people can’t be trusted to maintain society.

It’s utterly bizarre to me that people think you should just vote for whoever happens to be running tbh.

ZedLeg wrote: Tue Jan 28, 2025 11:41 am The problem is people wanting power for the sake of power and personal enrichment. These people can’t be trusted to maintain society.

Yeah, fair.

duncs500 wrote: Tue Jan 28, 2025 12:14 pm

ZedLeg wrote: Tue Jan 28, 2025 11:41 am The problem is people wanting power for the sake of power and personal enrichment. These people can’t be trusted to maintain society.

Yeah, fair.

Isn't that just about all politicians though?

Or at least the ones who ever make it to positions of real power and influence...

That’s that race to the bottom I mentioned earlier. We’ve gamed ourselves into a system where all we get are self interested arseholes because people keep voting for self interested arseholes.

ZedLeg wrote: Tue Jan 28, 2025 11:46 am It’s utterly bizarre to me that people think you should just vote for whoever happens to be running tbh.

Voting for someone who's not running would be more bizarre tbh.

You’re just being silly now.