OV9

Explosive Newt wrote: Tue Jul 04, 2023 9:23 am The house being built next door is almost identical to ours so interesting seeing it go up. Timber frame etc. The devloper let me have a poke around

Always useful to see and take a few pics from a DIY perspective - you get a far better idea for what can be screwed on or what fittings are needed to put shizzle on the walls etc etc.

I have no idea how new homes are constructed, if the timber frame goes up first is the brickwork just decoration/waterproofing? I think some houses they don’t seem to even bother with exterior bricks and just render them and then do a section in timber cladding.
I guess with the interior walls being OSB you can pretty much screw anything to it and it’ll hold.

Mito Man wrote: Tue Jul 04, 2023 10:10 am I have no idea how new homes are constructed, if the timber frame goes up first is the brickwork just decoration/waterproofing? I think some houses they don’t seem to even bother with exterior bricks and just render them and then do a section in timber cladding.
I guess with the interior walls being OSB you can pretty much screw anything to it and it’ll hold.

The bricks are basically decorative and don't bear load, as far as I am aware. There is some sort of goretex type material that goes around the outside of the frame to help waterproofing.


Here's me inside grinning like an idiot while wondering "shouldn't I wear a hard hat or something" but it gives you an idea of the framing of the internal walls. Cables just run vertically from ceiling to socket so not too much worry about hitting any wiring.

Interesting stuff. Do those joists come pre-assembled with the metal framing?

Swervin_Mervin wrote: Tue Jul 04, 2023 11:08 am Interesting stuff. Do those joists come pre-assembled with the metal framing?

Yes, it's pretty much the default joist type in the UK now on any half-decent new build - lighter, stronger, greater choice in sizes, no drilling for pipework and cables.

Jimexpl wrote: Tue Jul 04, 2023 12:00 pm

Swervin_Mervin wrote: Tue Jul 04, 2023 11:08 am Interesting stuff. Do those joists come pre-assembled with the metal framing?

Yes, it's pretty much the default joist type in the UK now on any half-decent new build - lighter, stronger, greater choice in sizes, no drilling for pipework and cables.

It's a hell of a depth mind!

Mito Man wrote: Tue Jul 04, 2023 10:10 am I have no idea how new homes are constructed, if the timber frame goes up first is the brickwork just decoration/waterproofing? I think some houses they don’t seem to even bother with exterior bricks and just render them and then do a section in timber cladding.
I guess with the interior walls being OSB you can pretty much screw anything to it and it’ll hold.

Even on a traditional brick or stone built house with cavity walls (so early/mid-C20th onwards), the outer brick or facing stone isn't the main structural support for the floor joists, roof etc - they will be supported by the inner wall. That is because you don't want to bridge the cavity. Obviously when the outer and inner leaf of the cavity wall are tied together, the outer leaf does add some stiffness to the structure as a whole, but ultimately the outer leaf is more about weather protection and decoration.

Swervin_Mervin wrote: Tue Jul 04, 2023 11:08 am Interesting stuff. Do those joists come pre-assembled with the metal framing?

The whole thing was pre-assembled. Basically a giant flat pack screwed together by a team of lads, but with tolerances down to the mm.

Jimexpl wrote: Tue Jul 04, 2023 12:00 pm

Swervin_Mervin wrote: Tue Jul 04, 2023 11:08 am Interesting stuff. Do those joists come pre-assembled with the metal framing?

Yes, it's pretty much the default joist type in the UK now on any half-decent new build - lighter, stronger, greater choice in sizes, no drilling for pipework and cables.

You see these ones a hell of a lot too, these have pre scored knock outs for pipe work and cables

Back in court tomorrow morning. This time it's an appeal hearing based on my neighbours (I call them neighbours, but in this situation they're really the tenants and I'm landlord) claiming they couldn't hear what the judge was saying when we got the determination last November. The transcript shows zero signs of any such problems, in fact, the majority of the previous hearing comprised the judge listening to, and politely dismissing almost everything my neighbours said.

They've also taken this opportunity of being in front of a judge to try and bring in 101 other irrelevant claims in their skeleton argument, suggesting I'm a terrible person and abusive landlord and completely unreasonable for ignoring their ridiculous 'offers'*. Luckily all of this should be quickly ignored by the court.

Anyway, fingers crossed. Going to court is horrifically nerve-wracking, even when there's a 99% chance of success.

Also - legal stuff takes forever! This all started in 2019 and the simple act of neighbors claiming they couldn't hear, has put 9 months onto the process

* one such offer included a clause that the landlord would agree to never again take any legal action against the tenants of that property

Gavster wrote: Wed Aug 30, 2023 7:45 am Also - legal stuff takes forever!

See my comment in the Lucy Letby thread - our courts have been starved of funding and that affects civil proceedings as much as criminal trials.

Massive win today. Judge was extremely damning about the neighbours behaviour and roundly dismissed all of their grounds for appeal (over the course of 5 hours). He even called them “members of the awkward squad” which literally made me do a double take.

Celebrating with a beer or two

Hopefully they heard him say it

When can we get the full story on these muppets?

Rich B wrote: Fri Sep 01, 2023 12:04 am When can we get the full story on these muppets?

Bear with me, I'll put something together. It's a long story!

Gavster wrote: Fri Sep 01, 2023 7:42 am

Rich B wrote: Fri Sep 01, 2023 12:04 am When can we get the full story on these muppets?

Bear with me, I'll put something together. It's a long story!

And that's an understatement. You could write a book on it if you covered all of their behaviour in addition to just talking about the legal stuff.

This is the shortest possible version.

I bought a first-floor maisonette in 2016 which sat above a somewhat dilapidated ground floor flat. Old-ish couple (late 60s/early 70s) lived there. Found out the freeholder was taking zero responsibility for the building.

I befriended the old couple, and the freeholder, who offered us the freehold for £500 + legals (999 year leases) and issued a section V right of first refusal. Neighbours started making wild requests, e.g. that freeholder gives us the freehold for free, that I update my lease to say that my property can never be rented out, and that they shouldn't pay any legal fees for all this. They also refused to get legal advice.

Section V notice expired so I bought the freehold alone c. late 2017. Neighbours weren't happy but it was the right decision.

Between 2017 and 2019 neighbours began to persistently send long and threatening emails/letters to me, accusing me of damaging the building, being responsible for historic problems, as well as things like smashing their windows, intimidating them and pouring litter into their garden. They also refused to pay insurance and ground rent.

2019 I took legal advice and decided to sell the property. Put it on the market, had a few viewings, but no offers. Neighbours tried to blackmail me by saying I'd devalued their property and should give them the freehold as compensation, or else. More threats. Then they informed me they'd filed a claim in the county court against me (as freeholder).

At this point I went back to my solicitor, who is an expert in landlord/tenant disputes and acts with incredible pace, confidence and accuracy.

We began tidying up my side of the street as freeholder whilst we waited for details of the claim. We also decided that due to obvious dilapidations and lack of maintenance, it would be wise to complete a full ineternal/external survey of the entire property.

A few weeks passed. No claim appeared. Delays, apparently. Then a few more weeks. After around six weeks, my neighbour said "the court lost the papers".

As there were obviously issues that wouldn't magically disappear, we decided to proceed with the survey, so that we can determine the extent of dilapidations and prepare a schedule of works.

Over the course of 2020 to 2022 we attempted to access their property three times and each time they refused access to the surveyor. (Covid made this process take 18 months longer than necessary as it provided a genuine reason for them to refuse access). Basically they're hoarders so will never open the door to anyone.

In this period around 600+ pages of letters and responses went back and forth. My neighbour tends to send excessively long and rambling legal-esque letters.

In 2022 we applied to the court for (excuse mangling of the legal) a declaration that my neighbours had refused access to a surveyor, therefore breaching their lease.

December 2022, Judge agreed and made a declaration. Basically a court order that tells my neighbours they must allow a surveyor into their property. The appealed on five grounds, four of which were dismissed.

August 2023 appeal hearing, the judge absolutely removed every possibility of my neighbours having any pathway to appeal or refute the original declaration. Also made a costs order.

Today, we have a court order saying they need to allow access, and a court order saying they need to give me £8k in the next two weeks. Surveyor is booked for 13th September 10am to attend for one final time. If he is refused access, and/or if they fail to give access to any part of the property, or pay the £8k, then they will be even further in breach of their lease/the court orders. The next step to escalate from there is to serve a section 146 notice, which leads ultimately to forfeiture. They'll have another 14 days to allow access and pay costs.

If they persist in refusing the access that their lease and the courts demand, then ultimately their lease will be forfeited, and their property will revert to the freeholder, who is me. If they do allow access and pay costs, then the surveyor will prepare a schedule of dilapidations and they'll need to pay for their share of the works to the building.

It's worth noting they've had four years to either allow access or agree there's a problem with their property's state of repair, and have been warned at every stage, probably 50+ times, that if they don't do what is very clearly stated in their lease, then they could lose their home. They've also not taken legal advice at all, despite having been told they really must at every single stage.

Meanwhile, I've spent years living above abusive neighbours in a building that is somewhat run-down (externally), spent/borrowed ~£40k in legal fees and am unable to do any renovation works externally because of their refusal to take any responsibility for their actions.

I was hoping that forfeiture of their lease was the hearing you'd just had. After this length of time, it would be gratifying to kick them out and have their flat, allowing you to do up the building and sell it, hopefully making a nice profit in the end.

Sounds shit, makes you question the whole system though, you're in the right, but you're £40k down because you've done things correctly and got legal advice, but they are only £8k down (unless they end up forfeiting!!)

Just to confirm, it's just 2 properties and the "old couple" in the GF flat are the "neighbours" in the rest of the story?