OV9

Interesting comment from the BMA junior docs’ committee chair about the logistics of negotiating with Labour (shared on an FB group so fair game).

The government also leaked early on the offer before the BMA could put out a press release in order to control the narrative.

Hats off, they are shrewd operators.

Is ruthless a good thing?

It’s not like the last lot could be accused of caring too much.

In the context of policy, a certain amount of ruthlessness is useful to assist progress. There is almost never a win-win situation; there's always a trade-off somewhere, meaning that someone or some people will suffer negative consequences as a result of a policy change. The knowledge of any trade-offs can often paralyse governments from taking action, especially close to an election, to avoid any bad press. Of course there needs to be a judgement call to ensure that policies always mititgate suffering as much as is reasonably possible. A government that's willing to be slightly ruthless enacting policies that are pushing in the right direction of travel is ultimately going to be more effective.

When it comes to food we're fed up with governments fannying around doing sweet FA, for fear of being called "nanny state" or getting angry calls from business leaders. A certain amount of ruthlessness in enacting policies that help people make healthier choices would be very welcome.

On that note, the gov has just also announced a rapid review of action on the environment in the context of the environment act. It's a great first step, and if they manage to deliver solid outcomes and implementation from this initiatives then it's a massive win.
https://www.gov.uk/government/news/gove ... ct-targets

I’m having a bit of cognitive dissonance at everyone else being more positive about a Labour government than me tbh

Different priorities I guess.

ZedLeg wrote: Tue Jul 30, 2024 2:45 pm I’m having a bit of cognitive dissonance at everyone else being more positive about a Labour government than me tbh

Different priorities I guess.

They've not been in power for a month yet. It's not like you'd expect them to achieve many things when the King's Speech was only read a week ago.

Think everyone is generally happy that each day doesn't bring another scandal/disaster/lie from the Government.

I'm not buying any of this. You can't build all over and then claim to save the environment. You can't plant millions of trees and rewild everything and improve food security. You can't build homes in flood zones and then protect the community from flooding. But words and reviews and plans are cheap and easy.

Jobbo wrote: Tue Jul 30, 2024 2:51 pm

ZedLeg wrote: Tue Jul 30, 2024 2:45 pm I’m having a bit of cognitive dissonance at everyone else being more positive about a Labour government than me tbh

Different priorities I guess.

They've not been in power for a month yet. It's not like you'd expect them to achieve many things when the King's Speech was only read a week ago.

Think everyone is generally happy that each day doesn't bring another scandal/disaster/lie from the Government.

There’s been a fair amount of lying tbf.

i’ve no doubt that the majority of the “£22 billion black hole” is the Politics of unlocking the ability to make big changes, because we had exactly the same from the last government (it started off with the “no money” note, then it was “Covid” and “Ukraine”).

They can’t please everyone, they’re damned if they do/dont, so imo if they want to do something, they just have to go for it, then we can praise/criticise the outcome.

I genuinely hope I’m wrong and this government will be the salve the country needs. Early signs aren’t promising though.

ZedLeg wrote: Tue Jul 30, 2024 2:56 pm

Jobbo wrote: Tue Jul 30, 2024 2:51 pm

ZedLeg wrote: Tue Jul 30, 2024 2:45 pm I’m having a bit of cognitive dissonance at everyone else being more positive about a Labour government than me tbh

Different priorities I guess.

They've not been in power for a month yet. It's not like you'd expect them to achieve many things when the King's Speech was only read a week ago.

Think everyone is generally happy that each day doesn't bring another scandal/disaster/lie from the Government.

There’s been a fair amount of lying tbf.

On what?

Rich B wrote: Tue Jul 30, 2024 3:34 pm i’ve no doubt that the majority of the “£22 billion black hole” is the Politics of unlocking the ability to make big changes, because we had exactly the same from the last government (it started off with the “no money” note, then it was “Covid” and “Ukraine”).

They can’t please everyone, they’re damned if they do/dont, so imo if they want to do something, they just have to go for it, then we can praise/criticise the outcome.

Its not just the government saying theres no money though this time its backed up by the OBR saying the torys were not transparent and hid details of the budgets.

ZedLeg wrote: Tue Jul 30, 2024 4:12 pm I genuinely hope I’m wrong and this government will be the salve the country needs. Early signs aren’t promising though.

i don’t think they will change the country into what you want!

I get that, just an inkling of traditional labour values would be good.

We’ll see how Rayner’s housing plan goes.

ZedLeg wrote: Tue Jul 30, 2024 4:56 pm I get that, just an inkling of traditional labour values would be good.

We’ll see how Rayner’s housing plan goes.

Traditional Labour would never get into this position though - “your” party is gone for now.

Ok, I’m not really interested in getting into the weeds on this but I also realise that Starmer’s Labour is miles away from where I think Labour should be.

I’ve not exactly been quiet about it.

I guess I’m starting to wonder what I’m missing with this enthusiasm that others are showing when all I see is another centre right suit waving as he plans to rob us.

Swervin_Mervin wrote: Tue Jul 30, 2024 10:13 am I'm not a fan of cancelling infrastructure projects at all - I'd like to see more action on stopping them from running on for years before a spade is allowed into the ground. Generally as a nation I don't think we do too badly in balancing the delivery of projects against ensuring they've been fully impact assessed. However, in very recent years I think that balance has been lost and there's far too much credence paid to all sorts of fringe matters.

What does interest me is the leaking of numerous little tidbits on HS2. HS2 buying land on the Crewe-Manchester leg after it was cancelled. No announcement on the scrapping of Euston station in the speech on cancelled infrastructure. No land having been sold on the cancelled leg of the line etc.

I'd be happy to see a few projects cut if it means that HS2 can get back on track.

I'm not a fan of it either, and I generally agree with your post. It is fucking tragic though when you see tax payers money constantly pissed up the wall. It's about bureaucracy really, the specification and contract docs probably stack 2m high, they're just copy-pasted from one major project to another, only about 50% of it is really necessary, and you have an army of consultants whose only reason for being there is to man mark the contractor and ensure he adheres to every letter (and are on the clock so are only incentivised to prolong the scheme by saying no as often as possible).

scotta wrote: Tue Jul 30, 2024 4:46 pm

ZedLeg wrote: Tue Jul 30, 2024 2:56 pm

Jobbo wrote: Tue Jul 30, 2024 2:51 pm

They've not been in power for a month yet. It's not like you'd expect them to achieve many things when the King's Speech was only read a week ago.

Think everyone is generally happy that each day doesn't bring another scandal/disaster/lie from the Government.

There’s been a fair amount of lying tbf.

On what?

@ZedLeg as Scott says, on what? I'm no Labour fanboy and couldn't bring myself to vote for them as a party but I genuinely can't criticise their behaviour thus far. I may have missed something of course.

ZedLeg wrote: Tue Jul 30, 2024 2:45 pm I’m having a bit of cognitive dissonance at everyone else being more positive about a Labour government than me tbh

Different priorities I guess.

As I expect you know, we're not likely to see a government well aligned to your views any time soon though.

Have you ever thought about going into politics? You've clearly got strong views, maybe it's your calling!

ZedLeg wrote: Tue Jul 30, 2024 5:21 pm Ok, I’m not really interested in getting into the weeds on this but I also realise that Starmer’s Labour is miles away from where I think Labour should be.

I’ve not exactly been quiet about it.

I guess I’m starting to wonder what I’m missing with this enthusiasm that others are showing when all I see is another centre right suit waving as he plans to rob us.

the majority of this country are pretty centred though (hence it’s seen as the centre between two extremes) and were begging for a centre-ish party that weren’t the tories to vote for. Labour became this again and won.

hence your vision of what labour should be is dead (for now).

I think the sad fact for Zed is that the kind of Labour Party he wants simply isn’t very popular at a national level.