OV9

Posted: **Mon Oct 21, 2019 7:39 pm**

duncs500 wrote: Mon Oct 21, 2019 1:57 pm I would love cheaper trains and better public services for less money. Unfortunately, to get this the organisation in question needs to be motivated by generating efficiency and delivering good customer service. As it is public sector organisations just aren't.

Boom. Nail and head.

Posted: **Mon Oct 21, 2019 7:42 pm**

DeskJockey wrote: Mon Oct 21, 2019 1:58 pm
duncs500 wrote: Mon Oct 21, 2019 1:57 pm I would love cheaper trains and better public services for less money. Unfortunately, to get this the organisation in question needs to be motivated by generating efficiency and delivering good customer service. As it is public sector organisations just aren't.
But change is possible.

It is, but it would never happen. See Local Authority budget cuts. Rather than cut the inflated middle tiers those authorities chose to make it political and protect their own by cutting frontline services and pointing the finger of blame at Westminster.

UK public sector is grossly inefficient and protectionist. They don't want to change

Posted: **Mon Oct 21, 2019 8:07 pm**

Swervin_Mervin wrote: Mon Oct 21, 2019 7:38 pm
DeskJockey wrote: Mon Oct 21, 2019 11:30 am
speedingfine wrote: Mon Oct 21, 2019 11:27 am

I'm pretty left of centre and agree with Swerv here. How do you propose it works lefty folks? Genuine question.
If they can sell it, they can buy it back. Not suggesting it will be simple or easy, though.
Reappropriating private schools? That were never in public ownership? Or how about land deemed too big for one ownership?

Those strike me as tubthumping to appease the crusty hippy 'smash the toffs' part of the membership. Which is, incidentally, why they'll never get elected in any strength.

Most people, as has been stated elsewhere, are a little to the left or a little to the right. But Labour spend far, far too much time deepthroating their own hardcore membership. And frankly, there aren't enough of them to win an election, and they're alienating their core voters (such as me) with this utter, infantile, 'marxism for dummies' bollocks.

I'm not afraid of Corbyn being elected, because it won't happen.

I'm far more afraid that we'll go through another four years of bullshit with the Tories and a mixed opposition who can't agree on anything and nothing will get fucking done.

Also, having spent many a year in local govt, what Merv said is fucking spot on about protectionism and inefficiency. It's not in their interest to rock the boat, so they don't.

Posted: **Mon Oct 21, 2019 8:53 pm**

Swervin_Mervin wrote: Mon Oct 21, 2019 7:38 pm
DeskJockey wrote: Mon Oct 21, 2019 11:30 am
speedingfine wrote: Mon Oct 21, 2019 11:27 am

I'm pretty left of centre and agree with Swerv here. How do you propose it works lefty folks? Genuine question.
If they can sell it, they can buy it back. Not suggesting it will be simple or easy, though.
Reappropriating private schools? That were never in public ownership? Or how about land deemed too big for one ownership?

I'm fine with the latter, frankly.

As for the schools, if they were never in public ownership then they shouldn't be. However, should a private school be publicly funded? I don't know the answer, asking the question.

Posted: **Mon Oct 21, 2019 10:30 pm**

I’m not suggesting that this is in any way behind a potential Labour policy to re-nationalise public utilities etc but I can’t shake the feeling that it amounts to increasing the national debt and creating a very large group of voters who will feel any vote other than a Labour vote jeopardises their Job with the proceeds...

Posted: **Mon Oct 21, 2019 10:37 pm**

Also...

https://me.me/i/julian-popov-julianpopo ... 9b052ba65d

Posted: **Mon Oct 21, 2019 11:58 pm**

Beany wrote: Mon Oct 21, 2019 8:07 pm
Swervin_Mervin wrote: Mon Oct 21, 2019 7:38 pm
DeskJockey wrote: Mon Oct 21, 2019 11:30 am

If they can sell it, they can buy it back. Not suggesting it will be simple or easy, though.
Reappropriating private schools? That were never in public ownership? Or how about land deemed too big for one ownership?
Those strike me as tubthumping to appease the crusty hippy 'smash the toffs' part of the membership. Which is, incidentally, why they'll never get elected in any strength.

Most people, as has been stated elsewhere, are a little to the left or a little to the right. But Labour spend far, far too much time deepthroating their own hardcore membership. And frankly, there aren't enough of them to win an election, and they're alienating their core voters (such as me) with this utter, infantile, 'marxism for dummies' bollocks.

I'm not afraid of Corbyn being elected, because it won't happen.

I'm far more afraid that we'll go through another four years of bullshit with the Tories and a mixed opposition who can't agree on anything and nothing will get fucking done.

Also, having spent many a year in local govt, what Merv said is fucking spot on about protectionism and inefficiency. It's not in their interest to rock the boat, so they don't.

Well, I agree with Beany (med levels checked in the morning

). The biggest issue, I think, is the need for a viable opposition. Irrespective of whatever government we end up with after the next GE, we need someone that doesn’t just say “no” because it came from the other team, but rather through facts and passion ( I know, do I even follow UK politics! )

Posted: **Tue Oct 22, 2019 9:26 am**

Broccers wrote: Mon Oct 21, 2019 9:38 am Lets see what the weasel midget says after 330pm and talk about the next steps then

At least he's a consistent little prick .... oh actually no he's not, just when it suits.

Posted: **Tue Oct 22, 2019 10:19 am**

Diddums

Posted: **Tue Oct 22, 2019 10:22 am**

Don't feed the troll, Rev.

Interesting reading, the Withdrawal Agreement Bill. I like the fact that it brings back into force parts of the European Communities Act 1972 which were previously repealed by the 2018 Withdrawal Act.

Posted: **Tue Oct 22, 2019 10:23 am**

Oh, Broccers - how's Lloyds doing today? What's your explanation for the drop?

Posted: **Tue Oct 22, 2019 10:34 am**

Brexit in a week or so.

Presumable we’re just letting the ink dry?

Posted: **Tue Oct 22, 2019 10:41 am**

dinny_g wrote: Mon Oct 21, 2019 10:30 pm I’m not suggesting that this is in any way behind a potential Labour policy to re-nationalise public utilities etc but I can’t shake the feeling that it amounts to increasing the national debt and creating a very large group of voters who will feel any vote other than a Labour vote jeopardises their Job with the proceeds...

The thing is that the tories promised to bring down the national debt and after ten years of punitive austerity measures categorically haven't, they are in fact still overspending. I don't think it stands up to say that the tories are the party of economic common sense anymore.

Posted: **Tue Oct 22, 2019 10:44 am**

Jobbo wrote: Tue Oct 22, 2019 10:23 am Oh, Broccers - how's Lloyds doing today? What's your explanation for the drop?

What drop?

Posted: **Tue Oct 22, 2019 11:04 am**

ZedLeg wrote: Tue Oct 22, 2019 10:41 am
dinny_g wrote: Mon Oct 21, 2019 10:30 pm I’m not suggesting that this is in any way behind a potential Labour policy to re-nationalise public utilities etc but I can’t shake the feeling that it amounts to increasing the national debt and creating a very large group of voters who will feel any vote other than a Labour vote jeopardises their Job with the proceeds...
The thing is that the tories promised to bring down the national debt and after ten years of punitive austerity measures categorically haven't, they are in fact still overspending. I don't think it stands up to say that the tories are the party of economic common sense anymore.

Doesn't that just make you wonder where we would be if they had shunned austerity and continued to spend spend spend?

I still don't know where this magical money comes from to spend more. I know if I was constantly in my overdraft and paying interest, the answer would not be to increase my spending.

Posted: **Tue Oct 22, 2019 11:10 am**

ZedLeg wrote: Tue Oct 22, 2019 10:41 am
dinny_g wrote: Mon Oct 21, 2019 10:30 pm I’m not suggesting that this is in any way behind a potential Labour policy to re-nationalise public utilities etc but I can’t shake the feeling that it amounts to increasing the national debt and creating a very large group of voters who will feel any vote other than a Labour vote jeopardises their Job with the proceeds...
The thing is that the tories promised to bring down the national debt and after ten years of punitive austerity measures categorically haven't, they are in fact still overspending. I don't think it stands up to say that the tories are the party of economic common sense anymore.

That's not really true, regarding debt/deficit.

Deficit - the rate at which debt increases, to massively oversimplify it - has dropped a lot, and national debt has flatlined and dropped slightly the last few years as opposed to rising.
(ONS data, don't tell me it's biased, the civil service hate austerity as much as anyone else, less money to go around innit....)

That said, it seems to be barely touching the sides in terms of actual debt.

I don't disagree that austerity has been deeply problematic in it's implementation though. I mean, just look at Universal Credit, where you take the most vulnerable in society - those without work for any reason - and you are literally trying to not support them at every turn.

It begs the question of 'is it worth it' in terms of overall societal impact.

And whether just some marginal tax rises would actually be a better option. You know, like extracting more than the paltry amount we have from the likes of FB, Google, Starbucks, etc.

Posted: **Tue Oct 22, 2019 11:24 am**

duncs500 wrote: Tue Oct 22, 2019 11:04 am
ZedLeg wrote: Tue Oct 22, 2019 10:41 am
dinny_g wrote: Mon Oct 21, 2019 10:30 pm I’m not suggesting that this is in any way behind a potential Labour policy to re-nationalise public utilities etc but I can’t shake the feeling that it amounts to increasing the national debt and creating a very large group of voters who will feel any vote other than a Labour vote jeopardises their Job with the proceeds...
The thing is that the tories promised to bring down the national debt and after ten years of punitive austerity measures categorically haven't, they are in fact still overspending. I don't think it stands up to say that the tories are the party of economic common sense anymore.
Doesn't that just make you wonder where we would be if they had shunned austerity and continued to spend spend spend?

I still don't know where this magical money comes from to spend more. I know if I was constantly in my overdraft and paying interest, the answer would not be to increase my spending.

Plus the BoE has injected 1tn in QE since the financial crash and rates have been slammed to near zero for much of that time. Very unclear that any Keynsian economic stimulus would have made the situation better. Likelihood is just that it would have made us look more fiscally irresponsible and lead to higher borrowing costs on Gilts.

Given the lunacy of the fiscal programme from the Corbynites the gap in credibility on economic governance between the parties is arguably the biggest it has been at any time since the 1980s.

Posted: **Tue Oct 22, 2019 11:46 am**

Broccers wrote: Tue Oct 22, 2019 10:44 am
Jobbo wrote: Tue Oct 22, 2019 10:23 am Oh, Broccers - how's Lloyds doing today? What's your explanation for the drop?
What drop?

The 1% drop first thing this morning. Bounced back about half that. Is this as people read the Withdrawal Agreement Bill and then gradually work out that it means we won't be leaving on 31st?

Posted: **Tue Oct 22, 2019 4:40 pm**

Seems the scrutiny of the Withdrawal Agreement Bill is indeed raising issues. The permanence of the NI customs border being one, even once an FTA has been put in place (if it can be put in place by the end of next year, which itself is ridiculously ambitious).

But the MPs supporting Leave don't seem to want it to be scrutinised; they just want to vote for it unquestioningly. So I have a solution; a BRINO agreement (the EU would almost certainly agree to this) which Boris sells as 'Getting Brexit Done' with a few fudged statements if anyone asks questions. We could leave, keeping Remain supporters mostly happy and pacifying Leavers.

Instead we have the objectionable NI backstop (which, remember, may never have been invoked) turned into the permanent arrangement for NI. This isn't even a hard Brexit, it's a ridiculous scenario which shouldn't even appeal to Leavers.

Posted: **Tue Oct 22, 2019 4:59 pm**

Any deal is shit by its nature, No Deal is catastrophic economically and politically. There’s only one option that makes any sense.

OV9

Bye Bye Boris!

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