OV9

ZedLeg wrote: Thu Oct 13, 2022 9:53 amI have trouble believing that the people will ever see a penny of it.

Someone should start a GoFundMe page “to help him raise the money”

His nutjob supporters will donate millions

Then give it all to the families who deserve it.

I still find it staggering that this level of conspiracy theory gets traction…

dinny_g wrote: Thu Oct 13, 2022 10:04 am

ZedLeg wrote: Thu Oct 13, 2022 9:53 amI have trouble believing that the people will ever see a penny of it.

Someone should start a GoFundMe page “to help him raise the money”

His nutjob supporters will donate millions

Then give it all to the families who deserve it.

I still find it staggering that this level of conspiracy theory gets traction…

Should ask broccers how he got into them.

While easy access to guns are clearly a large part of the problem, I reckon there’s something about the severe inequalities in US culture around healthcare, “success”, “freedom”, money, business etc that drives these people to take horrific action. I’m on an American self-help group on Facebook which I joined a few years ago and they only post about making millions of dollars as their idea of happy. It’s kinda sad, seeing people desperately pretend to be happy because they happened to make a few dollars one month in some pyramid “online coaching” business training scheme, clearly doing something they hate. I can see how these kinds of financial carrots and the eventual unhappiness they’ll all find at the end of it could drive deep resentments about society. Especially if you’re someone who never even gets a cut of the pie.

It always amazed me how LA had more homeless people than I’ve ever seen anywhere in the world. I thought it was a rich place.

Gavster wrote: Thu Mar 30, 2023 8:26 am While easy access to guns are clearly a large part of the problem, I reckon there’s something about the severe inequalities in US culture around healthcare, “success”, “freedom”, money, business etc that drives these people to take horrific action. I’m on an American self-help group on Facebook which I joined a few years ago and they only post about making millions of dollars as their idea of happy. It’s kinda sad, seeing people desperately pretend to be happy because they happened to make a few dollars one month in some pyramid “online coaching” business training scheme, clearly doing something they hate. I can see how these kinds of financial carrots and the eventual unhappiness they’ll all find at the end of it could drive deep resentments about society. Especially if you’re someone who never even gets a cut of the pie.

It always amazed me how LA had more homeless people than I’ve ever seen anywhere in the world. I thought it was a rich place.

Undoubtedly. The more skewed and unequal a society is, the more the view from the bottom looks like there's no hope or chance. It doesn't excuse any of the shootings, but a country so chronically underfunding everything except the rich will suffer.

Isn't America build on notion of the "American Dream". Insert quote about some random person who grew up on a chicken farm with nothing but $5 to their name and now they're running a Fortune 500 company because Mericka y'all.
There's really no equivalent of it in any other country.

You're right and it is endemic and insidious. It is causing untold harm, with people literally deciding against their own best interest because they're so indoctrinated. Not everybody, but enough that it makes a difference.

When you see women deprived the right to an abortion, even in the cases of rape “the land of the free” goes out of the window. With their lack of fundamental workers rights including a business providing a minimum wage rather than customers through tips, lack of basic maternity pay, no basic right to paid holidays from work, I’ve come to the conclusion the land of the free is about as free as their healthcare system, and the ease of access to firearms is still there to complete an illusion of ‘freedom’ in the general populous, despite being overwhelmingly controlled by a small class of very rich white men, forcing extreme Christian policy onto the masses

The land of the free nonsense is hilarious, it’s probably one of the most restricted countries in the West. Freedom simply means being allowed to carry a gun there.

I keep thinking that because they speak english they're normal but they're really not are they. America is fucking retarded.

The US is a third world country with a massive military budget, and nothing more.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-65233350

So Kentucky. How’s that 2nd amendment sanctuary status look now?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-41488081

Up to 146 mass shootings in 2023 now

I was thinking our society and that of the US is similar in many ways but after Dunblane we tightened up already tight (compared to the US anyway) gun immediately.

But given how poor our current crop of MPs are, I shudder to think what they might have done in that situation. Hidden in a bloody fridge or outright denial and lies maybe.

If someone is going to lose their job and their reaction is to take essentially an assault rifle to their work, you have to think some sort of test could be introduced that one had to pass before getting such a weapon - a rule most US citizens apparently support but they have the press and the NRA no doubt filling the airwaves with "the hard working families of America will be left defenseless from the boogie man" or similar and Fox News desperately trying to find any criminal record for the victims.

And I could have typed that 146 times this calendar year...

Today is day 100 of this year. So that’s 1.46 mass shootings per day

Gavster wrote: Thu Mar 30, 2023 8:26 am While easy access to guns are clearly a large part of the problem, I reckon there’s something about the severe inequalities in US culture around healthcare, “success”, “freedom”, money, business etc that drives these people to take horrific action. I’m on an American self-help group on Facebook which I joined a few years ago and they only post about making millions of dollars as their idea of happy. It’s kinda sad, seeing people desperately pretend to be happy because they happened to make a few dollars one month in some pyramid “online coaching” business training scheme, clearly doing something they hate. I can see how these kinds of financial carrots and the eventual unhappiness they’ll all find at the end of it could drive deep resentments about society. Especially if you’re someone who never even gets a cut of the pie.

It always amazed me how LA had more homeless people than I’ve ever seen anywhere in the world. I thought it was a rich place.

Totally agree.

I also have a theory about a kind of geographic determinism of identity in America. What you see on TV are bustling metropolises, but the reality for most people is either sprawling suburbs of identical houses on mile after mile of identical blocks or one of a million "Springfield-esque" towns neatly spaced on an effectively isotropic plain.
This has two damaging effects:
It drives a kind of isolation (both literally and an isolation of identity - everyone has to experience the outside world vicariously and identically).
It stifles personal identity itself - people can only identify themselves by what they are *not*. Think of a farmers field - what defines it as being *his* field? Only the fences, hedges and fields that define its boundaries. Similarly, people generally only define themselves by what they are not (I am British because I am not French or German, I am Scottish because I am not English, I am an Edinburgher because I'm not a Glaswegian etc etc).
If everything is identical, what aspiration can you have to carve out a distinct personal identity?

If you take away hope of creating personal identity beyond just climbing higher on the same pre-defined ladder, take away any realistic hope of ever economically moving more than a rung or two, and feed everyone on a constant diet of military nationalism and endless narratives of "lone wolf heroism", where are their brains going to go when they want to make a single desperate act to "be somebody"? The AR-15s on the shelf in Walmart enable the unimaginative actualisation of that desire.

See also- should we ban this abortion pill? Yes it’s dangerous to the people who haven’t been born yet

Should be ban this assault rifle because it’s dangerous to the general populace, with a strange skew towards young children? Nah fuck em

Nefarious wrote: Tue Apr 11, 2023 8:12 am Totally agree.

I also have a theory about a kind of geographic determinism of identity in America. What you see on TV are bustling metropolises, but the reality for most people is either sprawling suburbs of identical houses on mile after mile of identical blocks or one of a million "Springfield-esque" towns neatly spaced on an effectively isotropic plain.
This has two damaging effects:
It drives a kind of isolation (both literally and an isolation of identity - everyone has to experience the outside world vicariously and identically).
It stifles personal identity itself - people can only identify themselves by what they are *not*. Think of a farmers field - what defines it as being *his* field? Only the fences, hedges and fields that define its boundaries. Similarly, people generally only define themselves by what they are not (I am British because I am not French or German, I am Scottish because I am not English, I am an Edinburgher because I'm not a Glaswegian etc etc).
If everything is identical, what aspiration can you have to carve out a distinct personal identity?

If you take away hope of creating personal identity beyond just climbing higher on the same pre-defined ladder, take away any realistic hope of ever economically moving more than a rung or two, and feed everyone on a constant diet of military nationalism and endless narratives of "lone wolf heroism", where are their brains going to go when they want to make a single desperate act to "be somebody"? The AR-15s on the shelf in Walmart enable the unimaginative actualisation of that desire.

My only experience of America is the LA and NYC so limited to the wealthy metroploises, however even there I saw a lot of isolation. I met with a friend who was a town transport planner. Apparently there had been a lot of resistance to developing public transport in LA because the highly ethnically delineated neighbourhoods didn't want outsiders coming into their area. They were very happy for their Korean/Puerto Rican/Carbiean etc neighbourhood to remain inaccessible to others.

On the point of isolation, when I was in NYC I went to some debates at New York Uni about food policy and it's incredible to see how isolated and inward-looking they are as a country. Whatever is happening in other parts of the world seems to be of little interest (apart from Mexico, which is kinda like their back garden). Definitely a sense of them only considering their own country and their own practices, which therefore means they also believe themselves to be the best*. It's a stark contrast to the UK where we've been hugely reliant on other countries for our food supply and therefore really engage with many other countries, especially the EU.

* the wholesale belief of American exceptionalism is a whole other topic

I think there's a huge detrimental side to the whole "land of opportunity" messaging....

Imagine if you were born as a white, male American, and you're "failing" at life

Everything you see and hear tells you that you were born into the greatest country on earth, and as one of its most entitled people (white, male)

If you can't make it in America, then the inference is that you're fucked - this is the greatest country on earth, God's own country, the land of opportunity etc

The pressure on someone who thinks they're failing must be huge - surround that person with non-stop images of an unattainable lifestyle, then give 'em access to firearms and see what happens

I can't imagine how awful some of these men must feel

Gavster wrote: Tue Apr 11, 2023 10:20 am
My only experience of America is the LA and NYC so limited to the wealthy metroploises, however even there I saw a lot of isolation. I met with a friend who was a town transport planner. Apparently there had been a lot of resistance to developing public transport in LA because the highly ethnically delineated neighbourhoods didn't want outsiders coming into their area. They were very happy for their Korean/Puerto Rican/Carbiean etc neighbourhood to remain inaccessible to others.

On the point of isolation, when I was in NYC I went to some debates at New York Uni about food policy and it's incredible to see how isolated and inward-looking they are as a country. Whatever is happening in other parts of the world seems to be of little interest (apart from Mexico, which is kinda like their back garden). Definitely a sense of them only considering their own country and their own practices, which therefore means they also believe themselves to be the best*. It's a stark contrast to the UK where we've been hugely reliant on other countries for our food supply and therefore really engage with many other countries, especially the EU.

* the wholesale belief of American exceptionalism is a whole other topic

OT but the isolation bit rings a bell close to home! I live in Imperial Wharf, it's pretty isolated in terms of pedestrian access across the Thames. There's the overground which goes to Clapham but the overground is pretty shit. The only alternative is Wandsworth Bridge and Battersea Bridge which are very far to walk. So for many years there was a plan to build a public footpath https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diamond_J ... Footbridge alongside the railway bridge but the sheer public outcry/outright racism from residents here and at Harbour Reach has been quite eye opening.
It seems like this section north of the Thames is Eden's Paradise and directly across us is a gangbanging shithole run by the Sinaloa cartel and Crips - thus if the footpath gets built everyone here will get raped and stabbed...
There's still people who buy new build flats and join the FB group and become aware of the planning application for the footbridge and one comment said something along "If we knew we we're going to be linked across the Thames we may as well have moved to Battersea Powerstation"

So anyway the footpath has been approved for many years but keeps failing to get funding, but I reckon its primarily because there's some pretty high up politicians locally who don't want it.