OV9

Putting copper grease on the threads makes them overtight? Not sure that's true.

Tightened to the same torque setting the fastener that’s greased will have more clamping force than one which went in dry.

integrale_evo wrote: Mon Aug 22, 2022 5:49 pm Tightened to the same torque setting the fastener that’s greased will have more clamping force than one which went in dry.

But that’s not overtight. Since the amount of friction from corroded or dirty threads will vary, you’re more likely to leave them too loose.

Important distinction being that copper grease is full of particulates. Same reason that using it on fist-type caliper sliders is an absolute no-no, but backs of pads is fine due to good stickability.

For all this stuff if the manufacturer doesn't do something, don't do the opposite, given they spend many millions researching the minutiae.

mr_jon wrote: Mon Aug 22, 2022 11:41 pm Important distinction being that copper grease is full of particulates. Same reason that using it on fist-type caliper sliders is an absolute no-no, but backs of pads is fine due to good stickability.

For all this stuff if the manufacturer doesn't do something, don't do the opposite, given they spend many millions researching the minutiae.

You mean Opie Oil doesn't know better than the manufacturer of the engine?

Piffle.

mr_jon wrote: Mon Aug 22, 2022 11:41 pm Important distinction being that copper grease is full of particulates. Same reason that using it on fist-type caliper sliders is an absolute no-no, but backs of pads is fine due to good stickability.

For all this stuff if the manufacturer doesn't do something, don't do the opposite, given they spend many millions researching the minutiae.

Lithium grease also contains particles. Corrosion is also particles.

Manufacturers leaving wheel studs and facing surfaces unprotected means often you can’t get the wheels off when the tyres first need changing. They spend time and effort working out what they can get away with omitting, not making all cars perfect.

Jobbo wrote: Mon Aug 22, 2022 8:31 pm

integrale_evo wrote: Mon Aug 22, 2022 5:49 pm Tightened to the same torque setting the fastener that’s greased will have more clamping force than one which went in dry.

But that’s not overtight. Since the amount of friction from corroded or dirty threads will vary, you’re more likely to leave them too loose.

On critical fastenings, the torques are given depending on the lubricant used. If you wanted the same clamping force you drop the torque with a lubricated thread.

https://www.extreme-bolt.com/images/App ... e-Spec.gif

Dave!

Everyone is happy when everything is sparkly and new. Dry is best.

No arguing with @V8Granite, but the inverse is of course true in relation to fastenings with any level of corrosion on them…. My theory is that a the combination of a used bolt with a little lube probably brings you closest to new & dry.

But will it affect the rolling radius of a tank track ?

Sundayjumper wrote: Tue Aug 23, 2022 8:25 am But will it affect the rolling radius of a tank track ?

Lubed tank track, or dry? Be specific man!

V8Granite wrote: Tue Aug 23, 2022 7:24 am

Jobbo wrote: Mon Aug 22, 2022 8:31 pm

integrale_evo wrote: Mon Aug 22, 2022 5:49 pm Tightened to the same torque setting the fastener that’s greased will have more clamping force than one which went in dry.

But that’s not overtight. Since the amount of friction from corroded or dirty threads will vary, you’re more likely to leave them too loose.

On critical fastenings, the torques are given depending on the lubricant used. If you wanted the same clamping force you drop the torque with a lubricated thread.

https://www.extreme-bolt.com/images/App ... e-Spec.gif

Dave!

In the absence of such a spec sheet for our wheel bolts, I guess we should probably stop using torque wrenches on them at all, eh?

mik wrote: Tue Aug 23, 2022 8:06 am Everyone is happy when everything is sparkly and new. Dry is best.

No arguing with @V8Granite, but the inverse is of course true in relation to fastenings with any level of corrosion on them…. My theory is that a the combination of a used bolt with a little lube probably brings you closest to new & dry.

Your graph kind of illustrates my thoughts on it and, as you say, a cleaned up used bolt with a little copper grease (or lithium) probably gets you as close to "new" as possible.

As Simon says, both copper and lithium grease are more than just grease though as they have metal particles in. I'm not sure how that affects matters but in my simple brain I'd imagine it would ensure a greater degree of the transfer of force between the mating surfaces of the threads than a pure lubricant.

Jobbo wrote: Tue Aug 23, 2022 11:24 am

V8Granite wrote: Tue Aug 23, 2022 7:24 am

Jobbo wrote: Mon Aug 22, 2022 8:31 pm

But that’s not overtight. Since the amount of friction from corroded or dirty threads will vary, you’re more likely to leave them too loose.

On critical fastenings, the torques are given depending on the lubricant used. If you wanted the same clamping force you drop the torque with a lubricated thread.

https://www.extreme-bolt.com/images/App ... e-Spec.gif

Dave!

In the absence of such a spec sheet for our wheel bolts, I guess we should probably stop using torque wrenches on them at all, eh?

No, just keep the bolts and threads clean, I use a battery terminal cleaner.

It’s a non issue in many respects as they are rarely done up as they should be, failure only seems to be when they have been over ugg dugged at the garage and the car supplied breaker bar fails before the bolt/ but is loosened.

So unless you lot park at the bottom of the ocean, just give them a wipe clean.

Dave!

If I notice they’re not spinning in and out easily by hand I’ll give them a little squirt of wd40 and wizz them in and out a few times with a gun to make sure they run free, then give the threads a wipe.

I imagine there’s a pretty huge margin of error on wheel bolts. A safety critical part which is one of the few parts of the car the owner may be expected to use at some point.

I’d be really surprised if wheel bolts that came loose were ever tightened, more likely they were just put on by hand and forgotten.

Also overtightening, I’ve seen a damaged thread but that was plainly obvious when removing the bolt.

Dave!

We have reached our accommodation outside Köln. Car is still reporting comfortably over 90mpg, for almost 400 miles:


I’ve been watching the range on the OBC, as a check against the mpg. It’s been holding pretty steady @ 700 miles for mileage to date + range remaining. My logic being that if the fuel consumption calc is totally out of whack, the range would be dropping faster than we’re racking up the miles. But it’s not.

The suspense is totally killing me. Filling the tank and working out the real mpg will be the highlight of my holiday !

Hopefully the float in the tank isn't stuck

I seem to be slithering towards the slippery slope

Good good ! I have the coax version of those in the Clubman, I like them.

They seemed decent without spending absurd amounts, but enough that I’ll take them back out if I sell the car. My knowledge of car audio stops around 2003