Bye Bye Boris!

[GG.]

Yes but 'Labour' don't need to (and never would) whip for it. Boris just needs a small number of rebel Labour MPs, a number of whom have already said publicly they'll vote for it.

I LOL'd over the opening line in one of the Guardian's articles on the renegotiated deal: "Boris Johnson stands triumphant, having successfully edited Theresa May’s Brexit deal. Not for the first time, a man has claimed the credit for a woman’s work." What a bunch of spiteful shits they are, honestly.

We hated Theresa May and said she was no friend of women but let's find a way to make this about sexism. I think this is the stupid Amber Rudd take on the whole thing that people voted against that deal and the backstop because Theresa was a woman, or something.

[ZedLeg]

Yes but 'Labour' don't need to (and never would) whip for it. Boris just needs a small number of rebel Labour MPs, a number of whom have already said publicly they'll vote for it.

I LOL'd over the opening line in one of the Guardian's articles on the renegotiated deal: "Boris Johnson stands triumphant, having successfully edited Theresa May’s Brexit deal. Not for the first time, a man has claimed the credit for a woman’s work." What a bunch of spiteful shits they are, honestly.

We hated Theresa May and said she was no friend of women but let's find a way to make this about sexism. I think this is the stupid Amber Rudd take on the whole thing that people voted against that deal and the backstop because Theresa was a woman, or something.

I'd guess that it was tongue in cheek, no?

Don't let that get in the way of your rant about the liberal agenda though

I remembered seeing something about Labour using the whip to vote against this morning but it turns out the source works for The Sun so it's probably bollocks.

I'm also curious as to how this deal is better than the one we had before? Doesn't it fall down in all the same places?

[GG.]

Its difficult to write it off as tongue in cheek when the author is riffing off a complaint made by a Tory MP in earnest that people voted against TM's deal because she was a woman. Clearly there are people out there stupid enough to believe that. I don't think you'd say Amber Rudd has a 'liberal agenda'.

And no it isn't the same as the old one in many key respects. The UK whole backstop has disappeared and the NI 'front stop' has an exit mechanism. About as conceivably different as you could imagine. I also understand that some of the 'alignment' provisions for the rest of the UK have been removed (though I haven't read it yet).

[ZedLeg]

Clearly there are people out there stupid enough to believe that.

Apparently people will take any old shite seriously if they see it written down

[GG.]

Well Amber Rudd said it in a live interview but yes.

[GG.]

I remembered seeing something about Labour using the whip to vote against this morning but it turns out the source works for The Sun so it's probably bollocks.

They will almost certainly whip against (the alternative is a free or 'conscience' vote) but a number of Labour rebels will defy the whip - they key q is how many.

[Beany]

(though I haven't read it yet).

Has anyone?

[Jobbo]

The backstop has disappeared by sacrificing a few things held dear:
Northern Ireland being part of the UK (now have to fill in customs declarations when sending goods there)
ECJ jurisdiction (NI will still be subject to its jurisdiction)
Breach of s55 of the Taxation (Cross-border Trade) Act 2018: http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/201 ... 55/enacted - ironically, s55 being added by Jacob Rees-Mogg himself: https://www.thelondoneconomic.com/polit ... ogg/16/10/

[GG.]

But - critically - subject to NI giving their ongoing consent to that arrangement on a recurring basis. That was something never offered for the UK wide backstop which would have held us at the mercy of the EU/ECJ until they deemed they were happy we'd met their requirements for us to leave. Cut it which way you want but its a massive win for Boris from a counterparty that said "no further negotiations on the WA" (at least if you ever took that without a pinch of salt).

If anything, I'd expect the Scots remainers to be piping up right now with a spurious argument (as it would ignore that they don't share a border with a country that will remain the EU) that they should be given the same choice.

Don't get me wrong, it ain't perfect but its something I imagine most people (including those in NI) could make peace with.

I think you also missed "customs union" after "being part of the UK" - unless, of course, you were being deliberately inflammatory

[Jobbo]

Being outside the customs union is the thin end of the wedge, hence my deliberate phraseology.

I agree that there has been some success in getting the EU back to the table. I still think Boris is going to be found out for having said different things to different people yet again, but for the moment let's at least enjoy the brief moment of tranquility before Parliament debates the deal on Saturday.

[Swervin_Mervin]

(though I haven't read it yet).

Has anyone?

Me, me, me! Well, I say read it. I meant I started reading it, then my eyes crossed and glazed over, and then I realised I actually have quite a lot of work to be getting the f**k on with

[Swervin_Mervin]

Seem to be rumours that those that were only yesterday suggesting a 2nd ref would be tagged onto any deal passing, are now rowing back from the idea of a 2nd ref, and simply focussing on defeating the deal.

[GG.]

Being outside the customs union is the thin end of the wedge, hence my deliberate phraseology.

Actually - this isn't at all true - they're not outside the UK customs union (see Article 4 of the new protocol) - my understanding is that they can take advantage of any customs arrangements the UK has with third countries (or eventually) the EU. What the checks 'in' the Irish sea are for are to determine if goods final destination is the RoI, in which case EU rules will apply. This is the alternative to checks on the NI border.

There are checks but its materially different to saying NI is not in the UK customs union. It is not therefore, akin to the NI only backstop which would have put NI into a customs union with the EU.

[NotoriousREV]

Coulda woulda shoulda...

Did - hows your share trading?

7.5% up for the year to date.

[Carlos]

Is No Deal at the end of the month still a possibility even as a threat ?

[GG.]

It is if the EU say no to an extension (justified on the basis they've now put their best deal on the table and don't want to wait 9 months for a further referendum), i.e. its this deal or no-deal.

[Broccers]

Is No Deal at the end of the month still a possibility even as a threat ?

I think so as Boris has a deal now and if rejected and no extension granted surely the Benn act isnt valid?

Who knows - I do expect my lloyds shares to drop like a stone on opening tomorrow tho.

What a farce.

[GG.]

No - Benn act is valid unless and until a deal is concluded - i.e. entered into not just proffered. Still within the purview of the EU to decline any request mandated by that act.

[Rich B]

Regardless of whether it goes through right m now, conservatives are now an actual “leave with a Deal” party, whereas Labour will be a “back to the Brexit drawing board” party.

[Swervin_Mervin]

It is if the EU say no to an extension (justified on the basis they've now put their best deal on the table and don't want to wait 9 months for a further referendum), i.e. its this deal or no-deal.

No way would the EU turn down the option of a path to a 2nd Ref if it was a possibility. Anyway, that may no longer be proffered. They're supposedly now just aiming to defeat the proposal on Sat. Which begs the question as to WTF they do stand for (excl. the Lib Dems obvs)