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Re: Bye bye Theresa
Posted: Wed Mar 27, 2019 9:23 pm
by GG.
GG. wrote: Wed Mar 27, 2019 11:11 am
Jobbo wrote: Wed Mar 27, 2019 10:07 am
The SI has been laid anyway, so your argument is technical and irrelevant:
Laid but presumably given the timing subject to the affirmative rather than negative resolution procedure (as the latter has a 40 day period to come into effect). So not irrelevant just yet as it needs to be voted on and passed.
Now an irrelevant discussion as the SI has been passed (100ish voted for chaos).
Re: Bye bye Theresa
Posted: Wed Mar 27, 2019 9:24 pm
by Simon
GG. wrote: Wed Mar 27, 2019 9:23 pm
GG. wrote: Wed Mar 27, 2019 11:11 am
Jobbo wrote: Wed Mar 27, 2019 10:07 am
The SI has been laid anyway, so your argument is technical and irrelevant:
Laid but presumably given the timing subject to the affirmative rather than negative resolution procedure (as the latter has a 40 day period to come into effect). So not irrelevant just yet as it needs to be voted on and passed.
Now an irrelevant discussion as the SI has been passed (100ish voted for fire and brimstone end of the universe type stuff).
FTFY
Re: Bye bye Theresa
Posted: Wed Mar 27, 2019 9:25 pm
by GG.
Irrespective of their political positions on any other matter, their desire to see Northern Ireland not carved off or treated differently from the rest of the UK has been impeccable and they've acted with the same level of cohesion as Barnier et al.
Its actually quite fortunate that they are in a position of influence as otherwise Theresa May could have potentially ignored the position of NI entirely.
I think its deeply fortuitous that it happened to be the DUP in particular as kingmaker, rather than any other minor party just at the most important time for Northern Ireland constitutionally since the Good Friday agreement in the late 90s.
I guess that's speaking from the position of a unionist however. I suppose if you wanted a united ireland (at least regulatorily) then you'd be annoyed the DUP are there stopping May from sacrificing the North on the altar of Brexit.
Re: Bye bye Theresa
Posted: Wed Mar 27, 2019 9:42 pm
by Pete_
GG. wrote: Wed Mar 27, 2019 9:25 pm
Irrespective of their political positions on any other matter, their desire to see Northern Ireland not carved off or treated differently from the rest of the UK has been impeccable and they've acted with the same level of cohesion as Barnier et al.
Its actually quite fortunate that they are in a position of influence as otherwise Theresa May could have potentially ignored the position of NI entirely.
I think its deeply fortuitous that it happened to be the DUP in particular as kingmaker, rather than any other minor party just at the most important time for Northern Ireland constitutionally since the Good Friday agreement in the late 90s.
I guess that's speaking from the position of a unionist however. I suppose if you wanted a united ireland (at least regulatorily) then you'd be annoyed the DUP are there stopping May from sacrificing the North on the altar of Brexit.
And that's a valid political position, but it's based on a 'unionism above all else' ideology which does not represent the views of most people in NI. The NI business community in particular have been very clear that May's deal was what would be the best option for NI economically (this was at a time when it looked like it was May's deal or no-deal) and that a no-deal scenario would leave us pretty much screwed.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... rexit-deal
Re: Bye bye Theresa
Posted: Wed Mar 27, 2019 9:47 pm
by Swervin_Mervin
Fvcking laughable.
None of the tabled options have been supported
No No Deal
No Norway+
No customs union
No revoking article 50
No 2nd ref
Re: Bye bye Theresa
Posted: Wed Mar 27, 2019 9:49 pm
by Pete_
Customs union was close, but no cigar.
Re: Bye bye Theresa
Posted: Wed Mar 27, 2019 9:51 pm
by Zonda_
Only sensible thing is to call it off now.
Re: Bye bye Theresa
Posted: Wed Mar 27, 2019 9:52 pm
by Swervin_Mervin
Big abstentions on EFTA and Norway+ presumably by the Cons.
Now if May's deal finally dies a death it would be interesting to see the results if run again. Looking at the numbers a Norway+ might yet become the preferred way forward
Re: Bye bye Theresa
Posted: Wed Mar 27, 2019 9:52 pm
by Swervin_Mervin
Zonda_ wrote: Wed Mar 27, 2019 9:51 pm
Only sensible thing is to call it off now.
It really isn't
Re: Bye bye Theresa
Posted: Wed Mar 27, 2019 9:53 pm
by GG.
Swervin_Mervin wrote: Wed Mar 27, 2019 9:52 pm
Zonda_ wrote: Wed Mar 27, 2019 9:51 pm
Only sensible thing is to call it off now.
It really isn't
That (revocation) was also voted against by 293 to 184, so not even close to passing the house.
Blackford and Soubry are clearly a bit thick. They keep parroting that people's vote got the most votes. Well, yes they did - but they also got people voting against that option which is why it lost by 27 votes to Ken Clarkes 8 on the customs union.
Re: Bye bye Theresa
Posted: Wed Mar 27, 2019 9:56 pm
by Zonda_
Swervin_Mervin wrote: Wed Mar 27, 2019 9:52 pm
Zonda_ wrote: Wed Mar 27, 2019 9:51 pm
Only sensible thing is to call it off now.
It really isn't
So what do you think is sensible?
Re: Bye bye Theresa
Posted: Wed Mar 27, 2019 10:12 pm
by Swervin_Mervin
Zonda_ wrote: Wed Mar 27, 2019 9:56 pm
Swervin_Mervin wrote: Wed Mar 27, 2019 9:52 pm
Zonda_ wrote: Wed Mar 27, 2019 9:51 pm
Only sensible thing is to call it off now.
It really isn't
So what do you think is sensible?
Kill May's deal for good. That will provide some focus. Then, imo, Norway+ for me.
Try to bring both sides together with a compromise and let the dust settle and wounds start to heal.
Re: Bye bye Theresa
Posted: Wed Mar 27, 2019 10:16 pm
by Pete_
Zonda_ wrote: Wed Mar 27, 2019 9:56 pm
Swervin_Mervin wrote: Wed Mar 27, 2019 9:52 pm
Zonda_ wrote: Wed Mar 27, 2019 9:51 pm
Only sensible thing is to call it off now.
It really isn't
So what do you think is sensible?
Hold the same vote again, but using a single-transferable-vote system to find the most favoured option.
May leads a minority government for goodness sake so having a majority shouldn't be the be all and end all.
Re: Bye bye Theresa
Posted: Wed Mar 27, 2019 10:47 pm
by Simon
This seems appropriate
Re: Bye bye Theresa
Posted: Thu Mar 28, 2019 8:12 am
by JonMad
What's the DUP's position on No Deal? Given they are anti May's Deal and no other option has any favour (including Revoke)?
Re: Bye bye Theresa
Posted: Thu Mar 28, 2019 8:14 am
by JonMad
Re: Bye bye Theresa
Posted: Thu Mar 28, 2019 8:59 am
by Richard
I must say, it seems Brexit it going brilliantly
We should probably make parliament vote on it a few more times until May gets the result she wants.
What definitely should not happen though, is some sort of referendum vote by the people, asking us if we still like the idea 2 years later. That should obviously not happen, as it would be I democratic.
Re: Bye bye Theresa
Posted: Thu Mar 28, 2019 9:13 am
by GG.
A referendum on what? All options have been rejected by parliament. Mays WA, revoke (essentially the remain option that would be on your ballot paper), customs union, etc.
Do we let the country do 8 indicative votes?
Best option now really (but without precedent) is to continually remove the least popular options (by size of loss) and force MPs to vote again and again on the remainder until they have a winner, irrespective of whether that commands only a minority of the house.
Job jobbed.
Re: Bye bye Theresa
Posted: Thu Mar 28, 2019 9:26 am
by Jobbo
Best option now is to revoke, since there's no positive majority in favour of anything. Keeping the status quo could be the answer.
Re: Bye bye Theresa
Posted: Thu Mar 28, 2019 9:32 am
by Richard
Here comes 2000 words from GG
