Re: Bye bye Theresa
Posted: Tue Mar 26, 2019 2:54 pm
Feel the sovereignty...
So have the darkies and Muslims been fucked off home yet then yeah?
Let's fund our NHS instead.
Page 71 of 100
Re: Bye bye Theresa
Posted: Tue Mar 26, 2019 2:55 pm
Re: Bye bye Theresa
Posted: Tue Mar 26, 2019 8:27 pm
Someone put this very well before and it made me chuckle, “we’re all going to fuck about voting in the HoC on Wednesday but because May doesn’t have to take those votes on board she’ll re-table her deal for a vote on Thursday. Of course, no one wants. Has deal so it’ll fail. By which point it’ll be Friday and that’s the day we’re due to leave deal or not. They fucked it.”
Re: Bye bye Theresa
Posted: Tue Mar 26, 2019 8:54 pm
This is the problem, MPs have decided that they should make the decision on which way to go rather than the people (eg. proposed ref2 well defeated in the commons).GG. wrote: Tue Mar 26, 2019 2:35 pm
There also is the possibility given these votes are YES/NO, rather than vote for option 1, 2, 3, 4 - that none of them pass (i.e. have a majority in the house), in which case we're back to square one/no deal/May's deal rises from the dead.
So what they need to do now is put together a list of the options on the table, and then each vote choosing their preferred option out of the list. We go with the majority vote.
Now I'm sure there's no parliamentary precedent for this type of vote, but fucking make one.
Obviously don't include stuff that's never going to happen like "go back to the EU and get a moon on a stick".
Re: Bye bye Theresa
Posted: Tue Mar 26, 2019 9:01 pm
...I do realise that getting a vote like that off the ground would require many months of further bickering in reality.
I reckon we'll be having these same conversations in another 6 months or more.
Edit - That would be GG's dream, he's in his element right now.
I reckon we'll be having these same conversations in another 6 months or more.
Edit - That would be GG's dream, he's in his element right now.
Re: Bye bye Theresa
Posted: Tue Mar 26, 2019 9:40 pm
Not really - I’m as tired of this bullshit as anyone else to be honest!
Re: Bye bye Theresa
Posted: Tue Mar 26, 2019 10:12 pm
Got an email update on the petition, completely expected arrogant response:
The Government has responded to the petition you signed – “Revoke Article 50 and remain in the EU.”.
Government responded:
This Government will not revoke Article 50. We will honour the result of the 2016 referendum and work with Parliament to deliver a deal that ensures we leave the European Union.
It remains the Government’s firm policy not to revoke Article 50. We will honour the outcome of the 2016 referendum and work to deliver an exit which benefits everyone, whether they voted to Leave or to Remain.
Revoking Article 50, and thereby remaining in the European Union, would undermine both our democracy and the trust that millions of voters have placed in Government.
The Government acknowledges the considerable number of people who have signed this petition. However, close to three quarters of the electorate took part in the 2016 referendum, trusting that the result would be respected. This Government wrote to every household prior to the referendum, promising that the outcome of the referendum would be implemented. 17.4 million people then voted to leave the European Union, providing the biggest democratic mandate for any course of action ever directed at UK Government.
British people cast their votes once again in the 2017 General Election where over 80% of those who voted, voted for parties, including the Opposition, who committed in their manifestos to upholding the result of the referendum.
This Government stands by this commitment.
Revoking Article 50 would break the promises made by Government to the British people, disrespect the clear instruction from a democratic vote, and in turn, reduce confidence in our democracy. As the Prime Minister has said, failing to deliver Brexit would cause “potentially irreparable damage to public trust”, and it is imperative that people can trust their Government to respect their votes and deliver the best outcome for them.
Department for Exiting the European Union.
Re: Bye bye Theresa
Posted: Tue Mar 26, 2019 10:18 pm
Haha, is there even any Brexiteers who still trust the government to do a decent job of leaving the EU?Pete_ wrote: Tue Mar 26, 2019 10:12 pm Got an email update on the petition, completely expected arrogant response:
... Revoking Article 50, and thereby remaining in the European Union, would undermine both our democracy and the trust that millions of voters have placed in Government.
Re: Bye bye Theresa
Posted: Wed Mar 27, 2019 9:02 am
That's not correct - we don't leave on 29 March now whatever happens. It could be 12 April, it could be 22 May, it could still be never.Orange Cola wrote: Tue Mar 26, 2019 8:27 pm Someone put this very well before and it made me chuckle, “we’re all going to fuck about voting in the HoC on Wednesday but because May doesn’t have to take those votes on board she’ll re-table her deal for a vote on Thursday. Of course, no one wants. Has deal so it’ll fail. By which point it’ll be Friday and that’s the day we’re due to leave deal or not. They fucked it.”
Re: Bye bye Theresa
Posted: Wed Mar 27, 2019 9:14 am
I won't go back into this thread as it causes cancer but I'm guessing this has been posted already?
I didn't laugh once. It's too accurate.
I didn't laugh once. It's too accurate.
Re: Bye bye Theresa
Posted: Wed Mar 27, 2019 9:14 am
The Government has responded to the petition you signed – “Revoke Article 50 and remain in the EU.”.
Government responded:
This Government will not revoke Article 50.
Is that there the bit that needs to be voted on now ?
Re: Bye bye Theresa
Posted: Wed Mar 27, 2019 9:16 am
Woah there Steve, shouldn't we first of all vote on whether to vote on whether to vote on whether to vote? Not to mention when all these votings will take place. It's just not as easy as that!
Re: Bye bye Theresa
Posted: Wed Mar 27, 2019 9:18 am
Yep, I posted it on the previous page. It’s deadly accurate.JLv3.0 wrote: Wed Mar 27, 2019 9:14 am I won't go back into this thread as it causes cancer but I'm guessing this has been posted already?
I didn't laugh once. It's too accurate.
Re: Bye bye Theresa
Posted: Wed Mar 27, 2019 9:19 am
Balls - just one page back then. My bad. I normally find the Jonathan Pie rants a bit too much but this was brilliant.
Re: Bye bye Theresa
Posted: Wed Mar 27, 2019 9:36 am
Sorry, my bad. I normally keep well out of the political discussions but that idea just popped into my head. I obviously don't understand how this works
Re: Bye bye Theresa
Posted: Wed Mar 27, 2019 9:39 am
Until they pass that statutory instrument redefining "Exit Day", we still do leave on the 29th as a matter of UK law (as opposed to international/EU law). Practically, obviously we expect SIs to be passed to move it to whenever the end of the period of extension happens to be. It still does require parliament to take some affirmative action to achieve that and it could, theoretically, be blocked.Jobbo wrote: Wed Mar 27, 2019 9:02 amThat's not correct - we don't leave on 29 March now whatever happens. It could be 12 April, it could be 22 May, it could still be never.Orange Cola wrote: Tue Mar 26, 2019 8:27 pm Someone put this very well before and it made me chuckle, “we’re all going to fuck about voting in the HoC on Wednesday but because May doesn’t have to take those votes on board she’ll re-table her deal for a vote on Thursday. Of course, no one wants. Has deal so it’ll fail. By which point it’ll be Friday and that’s the day we’re due to leave deal or not. They fucked it.”
Revocation entirely is a more difficult matter. I've mentioned this before but it would not seem within the contemplation of the act to change the exit date to "never" as the wording in the act states it may be changed to the date on which the treaties cease to have effect vis a vis the UK. If that cessation never happens then the use of that power via a statutory instrument to make the act dormant as it were, would likely be ultra vires and reviewable judicially. I think the better opinion/option is that you would need another act of parliament to repeal the repeal act.
Re: Bye bye Theresa
Posted: Wed Mar 27, 2019 9:44 am
Slight update on this - the process for the indicative votes is different to normal apparently. They're not going through the voting lobbies (aye/no) but have a ballot paper where they will indicate yes/no on the options.duncs500 wrote: Tue Mar 26, 2019 8:54 pmThis is the problem, MPs have decided that they should make the decision on which way to go rather than the people (eg. proposed ref2 well defeated in the commons).GG. wrote: Tue Mar 26, 2019 2:35 pm
There also is the possibility given these votes are YES/NO, rather than vote for option 1, 2, 3, 4 - that none of them pass (i.e. have a majority in the house), in which case we're back to square one/no deal/May's deal rises from the dead.
So what they need to do now is put together a list of the options on the table, and then each vote choosing their preferred option out of the list. We go with the majority vote.
Now I'm sure there's no parliamentary precedent for this type of vote, but fucking make one.
Obviously don't include stuff that's never going to happen like "go back to the EU and get a moon on a stick".
This could give a slightly different slant on it, more of a "first preference" option rather than fail / pass, however, it will still be obvious if the winner still doesn't command a majority of the house on a normal voting process. This removes some credibility from whatever that first preference is as you'd then rely on others accepting that this was the minority (but still dominant) will of the house and falling in behind it to get people to vote to effect it. or force May to pursue it (remember these are just indicative non binding for now).
Equally it could give multiple contradictory results with several options commanding a majority of the house (slightly less problematic as presumably you'd just go with the one that commanded the greatest support).
Re: Bye bye Theresa
Posted: Wed Mar 27, 2019 9:46 am
GG: No we don't - we can enact whatever we want domestically but the Art.50 date is no longer 29 March. Have a look at these wonderful authorities: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brexit
Re: Bye bye Theresa
Posted: Wed Mar 27, 2019 9:47 am
Which is exactly what I just said. Domestically we 'leave' the legal orbit of the EU on the 29th unless the SI is passed. I suggest you re-read my post.Jobbo wrote: Wed Mar 27, 2019 9:46 am GG: No we don't - we can enact whatever we want domestically but the Art.50 date is no longer 29 March. Have a look at these wonderful authorities: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brexit
Have read that tweet thread on my phone, DAG also says the exact same. He's choosing to shift the point towards EU membership under the treaties because he's focusing on the question as to 'membership of the EU' whereas what I'm talking about is the legal basis for EU law in English law. So as I noted before, you end up in a farcical situation where if you as "is the UK a member of the EU" the answer is different whether you respond from the perspective of UK or international/EU law.
Re: Bye bye Theresa
Posted: Wed Mar 27, 2019 10:02 am
No we don't leave. We cannot enact any domestic law which makes us 'leave' the EU. We are still members of the EU until 12 April at least.
What would happen is that we would be members of the EU, we would have enacted a statute which purports to remove the application of EU law but it would still have direct effect domestically (remember your EU law lectures).
What would happen is that we would be members of the EU, we would have enacted a statute which purports to remove the application of EU law but it would still have direct effect domestically (remember your EU law lectures).