OV9

ZedLeg wrote: Wed Aug 07, 2024 12:08 pm

Rich B wrote: Wed Aug 07, 2024 11:56 am

ZedLeg wrote: Wed Aug 07, 2024 11:45 am Two months is a joke when they’re giving peaceful protestors years.

theres that word “peaceful” again.

It does make for an interesting comparison - from a monetary position, i expect the damage the pair did to the painting frame with the soup was similar to the damage this scrote did to a police car - so if they get two months too, are we all happy?

Yes

I’m not saying that JSO should be immune to consequences but I can’t see how anyone can argue that they should be in jail for years longer than these rioters.

And again inconvenience isn’t violence.

I'd disagree with regard to those that were blocking roads/motorways, and forcing emergency services vehicles to have to divert and therefore be significantly delayed.

But those that threw soup on the painting? That sentence was OTT and certainly shouldn't be anywhere close to being as long as that for someone that's committing acts of violence and/or robbery.

The soup throwers haven’t been sentenced yet so they may not get years the judge seems to have a bee in his bonnet about JSO though.

Seeing JSO take the blame for a clamp down on protest while folk who were out causing carnage get a slap on the wrist leaves a bad taste in my mouth tbh.

Simon wrote: Wed Aug 07, 2024 12:03 pm Many were repeat offenders, showed no remorse and actively said 'if they were let out they'd do it again'.

This would appear to be the main difference...

I expect the thugs were well prepared in terms of suitable remorse to keep their sentences short

ZedLeg wrote: Wed Aug 07, 2024 12:08 pm

Rich B wrote: Wed Aug 07, 2024 11:56 am

ZedLeg wrote: Wed Aug 07, 2024 11:45 am Two months is a joke when they’re giving peaceful protestors years.

theres that word “peaceful” again.

It does make for an interesting comparison - from a monetary position, i expect the damage the pair did to the painting frame with the soup was similar to the damage this scrote did to a police car - so if they get two months too, are we all happy?

Yes

I’m not saying that JSO should be immune to consequences but I can’t see how anyone can argue that they should be in jail for years longer than these rioters.

And again inconvenience isn’t violence.

Comparing the most like for like crimes - It sounds like they’ve gone easy on JSO, the riot twat is in jail after 2 days, the JSO pair are still out and about 2 years later.

Swervin_Mervin wrote: Wed Aug 07, 2024 12:14 pm

ZedLeg wrote: Wed Aug 07, 2024 12:08 pm

Rich B wrote: Wed Aug 07, 2024 11:56 am theres that word “peaceful” again.

It does make for an interesting comparison - from a monetary position, i expect the damage the pair did to the painting frame with the soup was similar to the damage this scrote did to a police car - so if they get two months too, are we all happy?

Yes

I’m not saying that JSO should be immune to consequences but I can’t see how anyone can argue that they should be in jail for years longer than these rioters.

And again inconvenience isn’t violence.

I'd disagree with regard to those that were blocking roads/motorways, and forcing emergency services vehicles to have to divert and therefore be significantly delayed.

But those that threw soup on the painting? That sentence was OTT and certainly shouldn't be anywhere close to being as long as that for someone that's committing acts of violence and/or robbery.

they basically have max of 3 months by the looks of it - and i expect they’ll get it all.

3 Years, 2 1/2 years and 18 months...

Better ??

ZedLeg wrote: Wed Aug 07, 2024 12:08 pm

Rich B wrote: Wed Aug 07, 2024 11:56 am

ZedLeg wrote: Wed Aug 07, 2024 11:45 am Two months is a joke when they’re giving peaceful protestors years.

theres that word “peaceful” again.

It does make for an interesting comparison - from a monetary position, i expect the damage the pair did to the painting frame with the soup was similar to the damage this scrote did to a police car - so if they get two months too, are we all happy?

Yes

I’m not saying that JSO should be immune to consequences but I can’t see how anyone can argue that they should be in jail for years longer than these rioters.

And again inconvenience isn’t violence.

Major disruption of national transport infrastructure is certainly not 'inconvenience'.

Anyway, I thought the entire reason that JSO ended up in court was because the law decided that their protests were definitely not peaceful. It's only JSO and lefties like you who have persisted in calling it peaceful in an attempt to peace-wash the magnitude of disruption caused.

I’ve still not seen an adequate explanation of how a road block is violence tbh.

Beyond a right wing government and press suggesting it is obvz.

ZedLeg wrote: Wed Aug 07, 2024 12:59 pm I’ve still not seen an adequate explanation of how a road block is violence tbh.

Beyond a right wing government and press suggesting it is obvz.

this is why i struggle with the concept of “peaceful” solely relating to violence.

The word peace to most isn’t just about military action, it’s about freedom from disturbance and tranquillity.

ZedLeg wrote: Wed Aug 07, 2024 12:59 pm I’ve still not seen an adequate explanation of how a road block is violence tbh.

Beyond a right wing government and press suggesting it is obvz.

Perhaps it's something in between. It's certainly not peaceful, yet it's not aggressively violent in the same way as looting Shoezone and fighting police.

However...

It's quite ironic that Arun Ghandi (son of the big man himself) refers to our ignorance and failure to act upon issues such as climate change as 'passive violence'. So there's definitely people out there who believe behaviours that are not physically abisove, can still be considered as violence. Also I previously mentioned the concept of 'strucutral violence' too. Structural violence refers to a form of violence conferred by preventing people from gaining access to things they need as a human, e.g. food, money etc. Both of these conceptualisations of violence do help to frame the actions of JSO as another form of violence, for example by preventing people from having access to their daily needs by blocking the road.

Structural violence tends to be used for situations like Palestine where a powerful state uses it’s power to make the lives of the people there worse.

I don’t see how it can be applied to a temporary situation.

Like, I get that JSO are annoying but is spending £250k each keeping them in a little room worth it?

ZedLeg wrote: Wed Aug 07, 2024 2:18 pm
Like, I get that JSO are annoying but is spending £250k each keeping them in a little room worth it?

Well yes, it is. even if you looked at it as a purely financial transaction.

They have stated they’d do it again when released, so locking them up is clearly less than the cost of another disturbance. Especially if it discourages others from doing the same.

ZedLeg wrote: Wed Aug 07, 2024 2:18 pm
I don’t see how it can be applied to a temporary situation.

Well that’s a surprise - didn’t see that coming…

dinny_g wrote: Wed Aug 07, 2024 2:27 pm

ZedLeg wrote: Wed Aug 07, 2024 2:18 pm
I don’t see how it can be applied to a temporary situation.

Well that’s a surprise - didn’t see that coming…

Feel free to explain what I’m missing Dinny

Rich B wrote: Wed Aug 07, 2024 2:23 pm

ZedLeg wrote: Wed Aug 07, 2024 2:18 pm
Like, I get that JSO are annoying but is spending £250k each keeping them in a little room worth it?

Well yes, it is. even if you looked at it as a purely financial transaction.

They have stated they’d do it again when released, so locking them up is clearly less than the cost of another disturbance. Especially if it discourages others from doing the same.

The cost to who?

ZedLeg wrote: Wed Aug 07, 2024 2:30 pm

dinny_g wrote: Wed Aug 07, 2024 2:27 pm

ZedLeg wrote: Wed Aug 07, 2024 2:18 pm
I don’t see how it can be applied to a temporary situation.

Well that’s a surprise - didn’t see that coming…

Feel free to explain what I’m missing Dinny

Don’t mind me Zed, I’m only messing…

Your conviction is admirable, no doubt about it

ZedLeg wrote: Wed Aug 07, 2024 2:33 pm

Rich B wrote: Wed Aug 07, 2024 2:23 pm

ZedLeg wrote: Wed Aug 07, 2024 2:18 pm
Like, I get that JSO are annoying but is spending £250k each keeping them in a little room worth it?

Well yes, it is. even if you looked at it as a purely financial transaction.

They have stated they’d do it again when released, so locking them up is clearly less than the cost of another disturbance. Especially if it discourages others from doing the same.

The cost to who?

Well the case said it was £1.3m of policing and £765k of economic cost. so £2m V £400k (£52k x 2 years x 4 people)

the government funds the police and the prison service i believe?

Never mind, I cannae be bothered.

As Jobbo said it’s not the place and we’re just shouting at each other from entrenched positions.

I don’t know if they did the Dartford bridge one but there were loads of extra police around for that as all the side roads getting off of it were rammed. Angry people as there were so many cars traffic was only moving one way.

Plus it was too late for me to get the actuator fitted at APS salads so the tomato’s didn’t get their CO2 that evening

Dave!