OV9

Posted: **Fri Jul 19, 2024 9:27 am**

ZedLeg wrote: Fri Jul 19, 2024 9:20 am
Gavster wrote: Fri Jul 19, 2024 9:09 am
ZedLeg wrote: Fri Jul 19, 2024 9:02 am

I’m not saying most people are complete deniers but most people get pretty angry when you suggest that they maybe don’t need to drive so much.

Personal inconvenience is the worst crime for some.
Is that 'personal inconvenience' in relation to behaviour change or the protests?

If it's about behaviour change then I'd frame it as habit. It's incredibly hard to get people to do things differently, not because they're offended at the alternative, but simply through sheer force of their daily habits being ridiculously hard to move. That's why nudge was so popular, because it actualy works and makes changes.
It goes further than habit imo, it’s entitlement.

That's a fundamentally cynical worldview, when most people are trying to do the best they can in their given circumstances.

Posted: **Fri Jul 19, 2024 9:32 am**

I don’t think it’s that cynical. There are 5 people in my office of 12 who drive less than 10 mins to work in Glasgow city centre.

It’s unnecessary.

Posted: **Fri Jul 19, 2024 9:48 am**

I would love to be able to walk/cycle to work in 20 mins. Probably take the car when it's pissing down (which, granted, is most days I the UK) but not relying on the car for commuting would be so much easier.

Posted: **Fri Jul 19, 2024 9:53 am**

I almost always walk the 35min walk to the station when I'm going to the office. It has absolutely nothing to do with the fact that I want to go for pints after... definitely for the environment.

Posted: **Fri Jul 19, 2024 10:05 am**

Matty wrote: Fri Jul 19, 2024 9:48 am I would love to be able to walk/cycle to work in 20 mins. Probably take the car when it's pissing down (which, granted, is most days I the UK) but not relying on the car for commuting would be so much easier.

Rain in the morning I get the train, if it rains at home time I just get wet

Posted: **Fri Jul 19, 2024 10:23 am**

The environmental argument is pushed down people’s throats and is business bollocks. It creates a new way for businesses to earn money and make a profit while winning work and contracts because they are now seen as fluffy and caring and green.

So when people shout and scream for change but have zero idea of how to do it, screw them. There is not a chance in hell that a push for green energy will result in actual green energy unless they go nuclear, which I hope they do but if not, it’ll keep me in work as renewables aren’t reliable enough to run a country on.

Dave!

Posted: **Fri Jul 19, 2024 10:23 am**

ZedLeg wrote: Fri Jul 19, 2024 9:32 am I don’t think it’s that cynical. There are 5 people in my office of 12 who drive less than 10 mins to work in Glasgow city centre.

It’s unnecessary.

Maybe they enjoy it.

Dave!

Posted: **Fri Jul 19, 2024 10:30 am**

That doesn’t really counter my argument in any way.

Posted: **Fri Jul 19, 2024 10:35 am**

It’s not supposed to counter it, it’s supposed to be a reason they may do it.

I BBQ a lot in summer, I don’t get extra nutrients and I create far more emissions. I do enjoy it though. Life isn’t all about maximum efficiency.

Dave!

Posted: **Fri Jul 19, 2024 10:43 am**

I never claimed it was, there is a certain level of entitlement to the idea that you can just do things that are harmful to the world around you because you can though.

Like, I don’t think I’m saying anything controversial. Everyone does something they could give up for the good of the world right now if they wanted to but we just keep going.

I buy plastic bottles of Coke because it’s basically the last little treat I have. I know it’s bad but I’ll still get them because I know that if I’m in a shitty mood a wee bottle of coke will fix me up.

Posted: **Fri Jul 19, 2024 10:52 am**

ZedLeg wrote: Fri Jul 19, 2024 10:43 am I never claimed it was, there is a certain level of entitlement to the idea that you can just do things that are harmful to the world around you because you can though.

Like, I don’t think I’m saying anything controversial. Everyone does something they could give up for the good of the world right now if they wanted to but we just keep going.

I buy plastic bottles of Coke because it’s basically the last little treat I have. I know it’s bad but I’ll still get them because I know that if I’m in a shitty mood a wee bottle of coke will fix me up.

Why is that harmful though ?

Yes it’s plastic, it creates jobs, it creates wealth in many different forms and you enjoy it.

If I said no you can’t drink that planet killer, does it make anything better or does it just make people feel a bit bad about a pleasure in their lives ?

Things get better naturally, my kids will no doubt see things I do as bad and won’t do them, progress will keep progressing and we will adapt as humans. Things will become less wasteful and when better ways of doing things are found, those will become the norm.

A massive push for net zero is happening where I’m working. It’s not suitable, it’s hurting my engines, it’s hurting productivity, wasting tons of money but they are getting big slaps on the back. It’s all bullshit and generally the only people not affected are the wealthy.

Plant a tree and if you can, grow something, far more sensible than feeling guilty about anything.

Dave!

Posted: **Fri Jul 19, 2024 10:52 am**

Coke is way better out of cans or glass bottles, and they are better for recycling. HTH. World saved.

Posted: **Fri Jul 19, 2024 10:58 am**

V8Granite wrote: Fri Jul 19, 2024 10:52 am
ZedLeg wrote: Fri Jul 19, 2024 10:43 am I never claimed it was, there is a certain level of entitlement to the idea that you can just do things that are harmful to the world around you because you can though.

Like, I don’t think I’m saying anything controversial. Everyone does something they could give up for the good of the world right now if they wanted to but we just keep going.

I buy plastic bottles of Coke because it’s basically the last little treat I have. I know it’s bad but I’ll still get them because I know that if I’m in a shitty mood a wee bottle of coke will fix me up.
Why is that harmful though ?

Yes it’s plastic, it creates jobs, it creates wealth in many different forms and you enjoy it.

If I said no you can’t drink that planet killer, does it make anything better or does it just make people feel a bit bad about a pleasure in their lives ?

Things get better naturally, my kids will no doubt see things I do as bad and won’t do them, progress will keep progressing and we will adapt as humans. Things will become less wasteful and when better ways of doing things are found, those will become the norm.

A massive push for net zero is happening where I’m working. It’s not suitable, it’s hurting my engines, it’s hurting productivity, wasting tons of money but they are getting big slaps on the back. It’s all bullshit and generally the only people not affected are the wealthy.

Plant a tree and if you can, grow something, far more sensible than feeling guilty about anything.

Dave!

The kind of change we need won’t happen while people are saying do what you like.

My bottle of coke may not be the end of the world but a couple of billion people doing it every day is pretty bad.

The texas sized pile of plastic in the pacific is testament to that.

Bear in mind that plastics are only about 100 years olds and we’ll likely be dealing with the detrimental effects of them until we all die off.

Posted: **Fri Jul 19, 2024 11:36 am**

Once again, 7 billion humans is the elephant in the room.

Posted: **Fri Jul 19, 2024 11:39 am**

It’s a selling a billion people convenience above all else problem.

Posted: **Fri Jul 19, 2024 11:54 am**

Mito Man wrote: Fri Jul 19, 2024 11:36 am Once again, 7 billion humans is the elephant in the room.

That.

Posted: **Fri Jul 19, 2024 12:12 pm**

What’s your solution?

Posted: **Fri Jul 19, 2024 12:17 pm**

There has to be active encouragement (without strict controls) to not have loads of kids. But as nobody is really talking about population explosion being a problem (as it's a sensitive topic) - very little obvious is happening there.

It needs to be recognised that everyone reducing their personal carbon footprint by x% is of no value if the population increase means no net reduction in human carbon footprint.

Posted: **Fri Jul 19, 2024 12:24 pm**

Ok, ocean cleanup is proving to work and recycles and sends a positive message, scale this up hugely.
Any pushes for local greenery, if not why not ?
Fields should be for farming, not electrification.
Local and seasonal products, not artisan posh stuff, just grow more locally.
Push small local initiatives, not global.
Why don’t we already recycle our plastic bottles like Norway and many other countries ?
MASSIVE fines for littering.
Mainly, get rid of net zero for the grid and push for businesses, housing etc produce its own power. Not shit heat pumps, huge solar fields and other power generation that doesn’t work on huge scales.

Eventually this will change people’s mindset, not batter them with it by pricing out the poorest in society.

Dave!

Posted: **Fri Jul 19, 2024 12:25 pm**

People aren’t having loads of kids, they’re living longer.

Outside of places like Gaza the average age of the population has been going up for decades. This is a good thing in that society is improving in health care etc but we have no plan on what to do with an aging population.

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OV9

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