OV9

mik wrote: Tue Sep 03, 2024 10:10 am It's going to get interesting if they go for a "per mile" charge for EVs and retain the current emissions-rating based charge for IC vehicles. Pro's and cons to each system of course, but running both will change behaviours in households that own both..... "no leave the EV at home, and take the V10 diesel Toerag for that 500 mile round-trip so we don't get taxed more".....

They'd have to dump VED as we know it and hike fuel duty if they were serious. But they won't. We'll just get another layer of fudge on the system like the stupid VED system for ICE vehicles.

How on earth are they going to enforce a per mile charge ?? Send you a bill based on the mileage recorded at MOT time ? Because unless they put cameras on every single junction across the entire country to track exactly where you've been (and therefore, are, at any time, which is a big ol' can of worms), it's impossible.

The London ULEZ cameras are capable of it so the capital is already sorted. It doesn't have to be on every road but just putting ANPR cameras on the motorways, dual carriageways, main roads into towns would cover most of it.
Make all the smaller roads dead ends by putting concrete blocks and massive flower pots in the middle of the road, again like they're doing in London and force people to only go through the roads with cameras.

Sundayjumper wrote: Tue Sep 03, 2024 1:14 pm How on earth are they going to enforce a per mile charge ?? Send you a bill based on the mileage recorded at MOT time ? Because unless they put cameras on every single junction across the entire country to track exactly where you've been (and therefore, are, at any time, which is a big ol' can of worms), it's impossible.

And those MOT testers are known for their accuracy and attention to detail

Sundayjumper wrote: Tue Sep 03, 2024 1:14 pm How on earth are they going to enforce a per mile charge ?? Send you a bill based on the mileage recorded at MOT time ? Because unless they put cameras on every single junction across the entire country to track exactly where you've been (and therefore, are, at any time, which is a big ol' can of worms), it's impossible.

Isn't the yearly MOT mileage bill thing what they do in Australia?

Swervin_Mervin wrote: Tue Sep 03, 2024 1:36 pm

Sundayjumper wrote: Tue Sep 03, 2024 1:14 pm How on earth are they going to enforce a per mile charge ?? Send you a bill based on the mileage recorded at MOT time ? Because unless they put cameras on every single junction across the entire country to track exactly where you've been (and therefore, are, at any time, which is a big ol' can of worms), it's impossible.

And those MOT testers are known for their accuracy and attention to detail

And mileage blockers don't exist

Simon wrote: Tue Sep 03, 2024 2:00 pm

Sundayjumper wrote: Tue Sep 03, 2024 1:14 pm How on earth are they going to enforce a per mile charge ?? Send you a bill based on the mileage recorded at MOT time ? Because unless they put cameras on every single junction across the entire country to track exactly where you've been (and therefore, are, at any time, which is a big ol' can of worms), it's impossible.

Isn't the yearly MOT mileage bill thing what they do in Australia?

No idea - I was being spurious !!

Stick a meter in the car is one option. A lot (all?) EVs are already connected, so asking for the telemetry from the manufacturer is another option. Technically it is relatively trivial.

It's interesting though as today VED is paid up-front whereas a "pay per mile" system is retrospective. Likely to bring some challenges in terms of cost recovery..... unless it's a "buy miles up front" setup....

Odometers aren't even a legal requirement currently.

I think the camera method is much more likely. Governments crave absolute authority. They can use this as an excuse to track where you go, when you're out, how far you go. They can charge extra during rush hour or when it's busy and charge based on journey duration too.
A politicans wet dream.

there’s already a practically perfect system in place, that generates tax based on a continually variable rate per mile, which rewards the more efficient vehicles being driven in an economic fashion and penalises those that are more polluting. All without the need for OTT surveillance or excessive monitoring.

obviously EV don’t take petrol/diesel though - so fuck em.

Looking forward to them whacking up fuel duty in the autumn budget already.

Not that the retailers ever passed on any of the supposed cut we were supposed to have had, just bumped up their profits.

Rich B wrote: Tue Sep 03, 2024 5:54 pm there’s already a practically perfect system in place, that generates tax based on a continually variable rate per mile, which rewards the more efficient vehicles being driven in an economic fashion and penalises those that are more polluting. All without the need for OTT surveillance or excessive monitoring.

obviously EV don’t take petrol/diesel though - so fuck em.

Tax on electricity as well. Easy!

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/20 ... -electric/
Paywalled but you get the gist from the title. It's because 22% of cars sold this year have to be EV's but there's not enough demand. So people who have bought ICE cars which are now ready are having to collect them much later or go on ridiculous waiting lists.
I did expect this would happen and it will get worse year by year. Not much of a problem for the ultra wealthy as usual because you can buy a 911 GT3 RS and just add a Macan EV on top to offset but the average punters hopes of buying a nice car with a combustion engine are dead.

the Harry’s garage video on a similar subject recently was an eye opener too - they’ve definitely fucked up with the whole thing - you can’t just set a figure and hope the market follows the figure, and if they don’t - financially ruin the market.

Mito Man wrote: Tue Sep 03, 2024 11:09 pm https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/20 ... -electric/
Paywalled but you get the gist from the title. It's because 22% of cars sold this year have to be EV's but there's not enough demand. So people who have bought ICE cars which are now ready are having to collect them much later or go on ridiculous waiting lists.
I did expect this would happen and it will get worse year by year. Not much of a problem for the ultra wealthy as usual because you can buy a 911 GT3 RS and just add a Macan EV on top to offset but the average punters hopes of buying a nice car with a combustion engine are dead.

The same dealers who have a surfeit of used Taycans will still need to sell you a new EV rather than a used one. And the new ones have a range claimed to be nearer 400 miles than the 200-250 people get from a first gen Taycan. I can see the original Taycan tanking a lot further in value.

Mito Man wrote: Tue Sep 03, 2024 11:09 pm It's because 22% of cars sold this year have to be EV's

And for ever EV UNDER the target a manufacturer is, the option is "Don't sell 4 ICE's" or pay a massive fine...

Simon wrote: Tue Sep 03, 2024 2:00 pm

Sundayjumper wrote: Tue Sep 03, 2024 1:14 pm How on earth are they going to enforce a per mile charge ?? Send you a bill based on the mileage recorded at MOT time ? Because unless they put cameras on every single junction across the entire country to track exactly where you've been (and therefore, are, at any time, which is a big ol' can of worms), it's impossible.

Isn't the yearly MOT mileage bill thing what they do in Australia?

New Zealand have for ages, "road user charge" buying 1000km chunks of usage upfront if you have a diesel, over 3500kg or more recently for EVs and PHEVs. If you get stopped by police and it's not up to date you can get fined. Was introduced so farmers wouldn't pay extra for their diesel at source, kind of the opposite of the red diesel system.

And yes, mileage blockers/correction are absolutely rife.

I think Singapore-style or Japanese ETC road pricing is fairest. Disincentivise using the busiest roads at peak times, rural users who generally do higher mileages on quieter roads pay less.

Absolutely, driving 15 miles into London at 8am shouldn’t be charged the same as driving 15 miles to your nearest supermarket at 2pm.

fines if you get stopped by the police? i’ll play those odds.