OV9

Listening to a podcast this morning, one of the presenters said she'd done maths to A-level and never since needed to work out the length of the hypoteneuse of a triangle. Thing is, I remember learning trig and pythagoras' theorem when I was 11 (in a normal state school), so even if you did make all kids do maths to 18, you presumably wouldn't be teaching them all calculus (which is most of A-level pure maths, IIRC). As Dinny says, the applied maths bits would be more useful - stats and mechanics at A-level were relatively basic compared to the pure maths so they could easily have been taught from a much earlier age.

Presumably it would just be an online thing? There's no way they could suddenly accommodate x hundred thousand 16-18 year olds coming back into schools/colleges for it? Then if it's online, it'll either be open to abuse or cost MILLIONS to run.

At 16 a lot of young people want to go out and work, if you made it available that’s fine, if you made it compulsory then that would impact too many people wanting to start their working lives.

Stupid thing to try and set up.

Dave!

I like maths, but it sounds like an aggressive solution to a problemt that doesn't exist....

It does seem like he's just randomly picked something he was good at in school and decided that everyone else should be too.

The other point is, if they can't do maths by the age of 16, after 11 years of maths teaching, wtf is another 2 years going to achieve?

Rich B wrote: Fri Jan 06, 2023 10:07 am The other point is, if they can't do maths by the age of 16, after 11 years of maths teaching, wtf is another 2 years going to achieve?

Maybe at 17 they suddenly decide they want to be able to add up? Seems optimistic.

ZedLeg wrote: Fri Jan 06, 2023 10:03 am It does seem like he's just randomly picked something he was good at in school and decided that everyone else should be too.

A friend who worked in Defra as a researcher said that they would spend weeks meticulously researching the scientific literature to develop a balanced and accurate report on a topic for the minster to use when making a decision. The minister would then usually base their decision on whatever they remembered from GCSE geography So, yeah, you're about right.

FWIW, it would be far more beneficial to teach some kind of all round money/economics/maths/business/finance amalgamation that would actually set people up for the real world.

I did see something on the news, but only at a glance, that suggested we were behind our European peers in some way when it came to maths education, but didn't catch whether it was time spent studying, or results. However, from a quick google this review suggests that we're doing fairly well when it comes to the standards:

https://blogs.worldbank.org/education/m ... performers

Of all the issues in education at the moment, making everyone do Maths until 18 seems a fucking long way down the list.

Most jobs, and I think all college courses need a gcse level pass even if totally practical / vocational based.

I don’t think it’s a bad thing to try and ensure people have a reasonable understanding of maths, but if this new thing is over and above that then I agree more practical and real world life skills type maths would be far more useful.

Is this just Sunak trying to leave a legacy?

I didn't think he was a fan of Subaru's.

I think @teacherboy is indeed correct (and the others who said). There are people that are quite clearly not going to go on to study maths based subjects in higher education, the key is to give them a good level of numeracy to set them up to make good decisions in their future life. These sort of people tend not to be interested in theory that they don't know how to apply, it needs to be practical applied stuff, that way it will both have value, and probably keep them more engaged at the same time. This can all be done by 16, you will not get people who can go to work giving it any attention after that. Ludicrous to suggest otherwise.

I expect that PM to be focussed on more pressing matters than wasting time on this right now.

I had a discussion with a maths teacher and he no clue about the difference between margin and mark up. Basics like that need to be taught.

Broccers wrote: Fri Jan 06, 2023 1:31 pm I had a discussion with a maths teacher and he no clue about the difference between margin and mark up. Basics like that need to be taught.

yeah, I'm surprised how often I need to explain this to people who's job involves marking up prices!

So really you want to give kids a crash course in accounting, most people seem to struggle to read a balance sheet. Any maths from the age of 13+ isn't relevant to that as it just ends up being geometry, trig, calculus, algebra etc. Then again Rishi was implying that it's the latter that is needed due to the changing nature of jobs rather than accounting skills to help with financial decision making.
I'd just bin off half the sex education classes and get the school finance officer to give a lesson every fortnight. You don't need 20 lessons a year going round with a condom and a banana whilst everyone takes the piss and gets knocked up anyway...

Maybe they will teach teenagers basics to be successful with money? Having 20k student debt will not make your life better for instance.

Broccers wrote: Fri Jan 06, 2023 2:04 pm Maybe they will teach teenagers basics to be successful with money? Having 20k student debt will not make your life better for instance.

Unfortunately they've changed the system so much in the last 25 years that they've convinced students that having £50k of "low interest debt that you don't have to pay back til you're earning loads, and maybe not at all" isn't really a big deal.

It's pretty masterfully done to be fair - particularly when the "earning loads" is something like £25k a year.

Rich B wrote: Fri Jan 06, 2023 2:13 pm

Broccers wrote: Fri Jan 06, 2023 2:04 pm Maybe they will teach teenagers basics to be successful with money? Having 20k student debt will not make your life better for instance.

Unfortunately they've changed the system so much in the last 25 years that they've convinced students that having £50k of "low interest debt that you don't have to pay back til you're earning loads, and maybe not at all" isn't really a big deal.

It's pretty masterfully done to be fair - particularly when the "earning loads" is something like £25k a year.

Tony Blair. But I'm sure his intentions were good.

The skills shortage is down to this tho where noone is encouraged to get a trade.

Anyway as for Sunak, god help us.