Smart Thermostats

[Jimexpl]

I've spotted that the wireless Tado starter kit is £85 currently at Screwfix. Having had Evohome in our old house for over 6 years (rock solid, just battery replacements and the noise of the TRVs as negatives) and Wiser before that (comms issues, then at my rental further comms issues and the buyer ripped it out within a couple of weeks), and Hive at our new house (like something out of the ark, and comms issues) I'm thinking of doing a straight single room stat Tado installation. Will be fun to see if there are comms issues...

I've used Tado in our apartment for about six years (six zones), and aside from one thermostat failing after four years it has been reliable. Haven't tried their TRVs as all of our heating in here is electric.

[Jobbo]

I'm not going to go for lots of smart TRVs this time - but I am thinking I might end up buying a few for the newer parts of the house because they can then turn down sooner. But first I'm just going to change the Hive thermostat. Will check the connections tonight then order a Tado.

[duncs500]

No issues with my Tado so far. Was from Screwfix too.

[jamcg]

Put one of these in for my friend who lives in a decent size old Farmhouse and he’s had constant comms issues, not sure how big your house is or how thick walls are etc

[Jobbo]

Put one of these in for my friend who lives in a decent size old Farmhouse and he’s had constant comms issues, not sure how big your house is or how thick walls are etc

Hmmm, that doesn't sound too clever. Well I won't chuck out the Hive kit until I know it works and stays working.

ETA: googling it, apparently the programme is entirely cloud-based so if you lose internet connection it won't turn on. Really? That's utterly bonkers. I haven't picked my order up from Screwfix yet but I'm seriously considering cancelling; anyone had that happen?

[duncs500]

Never had an issue so far, it's worked seamlessly. I guess your wireless thermostat and the receiver box at the boiler are connected over WiFi, so assume losing Internet is an issue, although not sure whether the wifi router is still running the stat can still talk to the receiver.

My Internet doesn't go down very often these days, but I should probably unplug the router and see if there's any way to control it.

[Jobbo]

Apparently you can manually turn on and off the heating if you lose internet connection. But if the internet happens to go down for a time when it's due to turn on first thing in the morning, it won't switch on. That is both evidence of how much we have come to trust and rely on internet connectivity, and seemingly a really significant flaw; it also means your heating programmes won't work if Tado ever have a problem their end, I imagine.

Debating whether to buy a simple non-smart Honeywell programmable wireless thermostat instead. But I've no idea if they have range issues.

[duncs500]

Apparently you can manually turn on and off the heating if you lose internet connection. But if the internet happens to go down for a time when it's due to turn on first thing in the morning, it won't switch on.

Seems like a fairly insignificant risk to me, the worst thing that can happen is that your heating doesn't come on one morning and you have to do it manually... save a couple of quid for a morning.

[Rich B]

Apparently you can manually turn on and off the heating if you lose internet connection. But if the internet happens to go down for a time when it's due to turn on first thing in the morning, it won't switch on.

Seems like a fairly insignificant risk to me, the worst thing that can happen is that your heating doesn't come on one morning and you have to do it manually... save a couple of quid for a morning.

You think a woman waking up to a cold house is an insignificant risk?! you’re a lucky man Dunc!

[duncs500]

Apparently you can manually turn on and off the heating if you lose internet connection. But if the internet happens to go down for a time when it's due to turn on first thing in the morning, it won't switch on.

Seems like a fairly insignificant risk to me, the worst thing that can happen is that your heating doesn't come on one morning and you have to do it manually... save a couple of quid for a morning.

You think a woman waking up to a cold house is an insignificant risk?! you’re a lucky man Dunc!

I wake up a good while before her, I'm sure I can switch it on before she notices!

[Jobbo]

Apparently you can manually turn on and off the heating if you lose internet connection. But if the internet happens to go down for a time when it's due to turn on first thing in the morning, it won't switch on.

Seems like a fairly insignificant risk to me, the worst thing that can happen is that your heating doesn't come on one morning and you have to do it manually... save a couple of quid for a morning.

You think a woman waking up to a cold house is an insignificant risk?! you’re a lucky man Dunc!

Yes, and 11 cats - I would certainly know about it

[Simon]

I have Hive @Jobbo - what kit have you taken off? Just the thermostat or the TRVs?

[Jobbo]

Not taken anything off yet - there are no smart TRVs, just a brick of a room stat which looks something like this:



It's horrible to use, the dial has no feedback and the buttons seemingly fairly random.

[Simon]

Not taken anything off yet - there are no smart TRVs, just a brick of a room stat which looks something like this:



It's horrible to use, the dial has no feedback and the buttons seemingly fairly random.

Ah, that's what I have. I use the app 99.999999999999999% of the time instead.

But you can unclip the stat from the wall if it's a newer one (battery powered) and stick it on a stand anywhere.

[Jobbo]

It isn’t on the wall - it keeps being moved around and thus losing connection or sensing being picked up as some sort of control input. It’s definitely the least ergonomic and readable smart thermostat I’ve tried.

[Jobbo]

I’ve returned the Tado. The one I got was the last one in my local Screwfix and had been unsealed. I was a bit reluctant when I collected it but when I opened it up properly today to fit it, it looked rather more used with dirty instructions and some suspicious gaps in the packaging moulded bits.

Everything seemed to be there so I still took the Hive front plate off to fit it - and discovered that while Tado don’t used the universal backplate, which I knew, the box is a totally different size to any standard U.K. heating control box. So it was impossible to mount it securely on the wiring box in my cabinet. I could have either totally re-done the wiring or just bodged it but I had enough doubts that I just returned it.

So, the question is what to get to replace the Hive. I am considering Nest or possibly a Honeywell device - either Evohome again but without smart TRVs everywhere or a basic wireless thermostat. I’m not sure how intelligent a new dumb Honeywell stat is these days; is it just on/off control based on room temp?

[jamcg]

Only way to link something in without it just being a on/off device is to use weather compensation, manufacturers proprietary controls, eg Worcester EasyControl or to use open therm connections- but not every make supports it, plus it gets complicated when you use an s plan system- I’m not too up on opentherm or every boilers weathercomp, but depending how it wires together some boilers try to throttle back temps on hot water so your tank doesn’t get up to temperature.

Nest works great, but has no trvs available and there are no further updates to the tech as google dropped it from further development

Evohome is still decent but is an expensive initial outlay, but it’s made by a company that specialises in heating controls and offers smart shit rather than a tech company trying to make your heating work- see also wiser for the same reason

If you’re not adding trvs then evohome is a bit ott. Maybe look at a t6? Available wireless or wired, and can do s plan

[Jobbo]

That’s one I wasn’t aware of - would want the T6R because it’s wireless. I understand Evohome which is why I mentioned it, but it did seem way OTT; of course I might add some TRVs in future.

Cheers for the advice. Really appreciated.

[Jobbo]

Now I'm torn - cheapest I've found the wireless version of the T6 is just over £160. I can get the basic Evohome kit for £184 currently from Amazon (controller and one BDR91) and not use it with a full smart setup initially; but I could add TRVs if I fancy it. I went round the house last night and found 22 radiators, 11 with dumb TRVs and 11 with no TRV at all (great). The kitchen has electric underfloor heating and I don't think will interface with any other heating controls we install to run the boiler, though maybe I should check.

I'm wavering towards Evohome at that price. There is a new design of TRV since I installed it at the old house, without a display; that's what I'd go for because you only need to see the temp in the app or controller.

[jamcg]

Keep the electric underfloor its own thing, any heating control designed to integrate with underfloor is designed for wet systems and not electric, so doesn’t have the voltage/ampage rating required. You can get smart controls designed specifically for electric underfloor.

As for having radiators without trv’s, I usually recommend getting new trv’s installed when looking at smart heads if you don’t know their age/condition. It’ll help reduce the load on the motors and extend the battery life and product lifetime if they’re not working as hard pushing a semi seized body around.

Bonus of getting evohome is the ability to add in valve heads at a later date using the inbuilt wizard. By far the easiest system to add extras into. Don’t forget to order the hot water sensor if you intend to control your water through it