OV9

Gavster wrote: Wed Jul 03, 2024 8:49 am

V8Granite wrote: Wed Jul 03, 2024 8:28 am

Gavster wrote: Wed Jul 03, 2024 7:25 am I find the toilets thing hilarious because we all grew up with unisex toilets in our homes and then suddenly people are worried about whether a person with a penis will be in the next cubicle. I literally live with a trans man (my lodger) and there is zero drama about anything to do with our respective gender identities.

Of course the subject is complicated because it is fundamentally awkward to insert a spectrum of gender identities into a society that is historically built around two binary gender identities. For example, my lodger identifies as a trans man, as opposed to a man, and actively seeks out specifically queer/trans spaces in society that are not for cisgender people, and those spaces can be scant.

Starmer's comments are harmful because of the division they cause, because we're not sophisticated enough in our thinking about integrating trans people in society to apply blanket statements like that. He really should have kept his mouth shut and thought about this a bit more.

However any hysteria (especially online) about the subject really is a result of extreme ends of the scale. People like JK Rowling are simply being actively antagonistic and totally unhelpful. Equally, pointing to a dude who put on a dress and went off and raped someone is not representative of the trans community either.

No you don’t share a space with people in your house, you shut the door to a room. In schools you have teenage boys running about being teenage boys and generally more timid girls in a very awkward part of their lives too scared to pee in school. That’s unacceptable.

After spending a weekend in Brighton it was very clear that I saw more transvestite men with beards (maybe it was just men in a dress and not transvestites) then the issue might not be as emotive for people. If I wore a dress and lipstick and sauntered into a woman’s toilet, I’d fully expect to hear shouting and screaming. As they would want a convincing transvestite just doesn’t stand out.

As with everything, if the extremes on each end would fuck off, everyone would be far happier.

Dave!

The bearded guys in women's clothing were most likely in drag, not trans women. They do it for fun as a performance and don't live their lives looking like that, nor do they identify as trans or female. Very often they're gay/queer men who will use the men's toilet alongside you too.

Trans people don't want to scare kids in schools either Dave. I doubt there's anyone who actively does.

Jobbo wrote: Wed Jul 03, 2024 8:52 am Dave is scared by them/of them, though.

V8Granite wrote: Wed Jul 03, 2024 9:12 am

Jobbo wrote: Wed Jul 03, 2024 8:52 am Dave is scared by them/of them, though.

I had my Essex wife with me, I’m far more scared of her

Dave!

V8Granite wrote: Wed Jul 03, 2024 9:12 am
They were men with beards in women’s clothes using the women’s toilets. I don’t know how else I’m supposed to see it ?

Dave!

Jobbo wrote: Wed Jul 03, 2024 9:24 am

V8Granite wrote: Wed Jul 03, 2024 9:12 am
They were men with beards in women’s clothes using the women’s toilets. I don’t know how else I’m supposed to see it ?

Dave!

Don’t go in the ladies’ loo. In a dress or otherwise.

Ladies’ loos are pretty much always just cubicles anyway. So you’d only be watching the bearded lady washing their hands I guess.

Jobbo wrote: Wed Jul 03, 2024 9:22 am

V8Granite wrote: Wed Jul 03, 2024 9:12 am

Jobbo wrote: Wed Jul 03, 2024 8:52 am Dave is scared by them/of them, though.

I had my Essex wife with me, I’m far more scared of her

Dave!

I was just being cheeky of course, but with a genuine point: why are you so concerned about other people’s choices? It doesn’t harm you (or anyone, other than themselves potentially). Don’t get bamboozled by the propaganda that women’s prisons are going to be filled with rapists now identifying as women.

V8Granite wrote: Wed Jul 03, 2024 9:12 am

Gavster wrote: Wed Jul 03, 2024 8:49 am

V8Granite wrote: Wed Jul 03, 2024 8:28 am

No you don’t share a space with people in your house, you shut the door to a room. In schools you have teenage boys running about being teenage boys and generally more timid girls in a very awkward part of their lives too scared to pee in school. That’s unacceptable.

After spending a weekend in Brighton it was very clear that I saw more transvestite men with beards (maybe it was just men in a dress and not transvestites) then the issue might not be as emotive for people. If I wore a dress and lipstick and sauntered into a woman’s toilet, I’d fully expect to hear shouting and screaming. As they would want a convincing transvestite just doesn’t stand out.

As with everything, if the extremes on each end would fuck off, everyone would be far happier.

Dave!

The bearded guys in women's clothing were most likely in drag, not trans women. They do it for fun as a performance and don't live their lives looking like that, nor do they identify as trans or female. Very often they're gay/queer men who will use the men's toilet alongside you too.

Trans people don't want to scare kids in schools either Dave. I doubt there's anyone who actively does.

They were men with beards in women’s clothes using the women’s toilets. I don’t know how else I’m supposed to see it ?

Dave!

dinny_g wrote: Wed Jul 03, 2024 10:09 am I wouldn't want to be accused of commenting on things that don't apply to me (Misogynistic Mansplaining) but I think Trans Use of traditionally "Female" Bathrooms isn't really the issue. As Jobbo said, they're (I assume - I've never been in one) cubicles so basins and mirrors etc are the only "shared" space

I think people who might have concerns might have am issue with changing rooms at gyms, swimming pools etc where people will often be naked or semi-naked in the view of others.

Most public changing rooms I've been in on the continent (France, Austria, Italy) have Male, Female and Family section which would seem like a sensible compromise allowing the majority of people their preferred space. (But there are still going to be people and groups not happy)

V8Granite wrote: Wed Jul 03, 2024 10:02 am They made a few of the women in the group uncomfortable.

Completely understandable.

Dave!

ZedLeg wrote: Wed Jul 03, 2024 10:14 am How often do you walk around public changing rooms with your cock out?

dinny_g wrote: Wed Jul 03, 2024 10:21 am

ZedLeg wrote: Wed Jul 03, 2024 10:14 am How often do you walk around public changing rooms with your cock out?

Most times. I don't know another way I can remove boxer shorts and put on swimming trunks. And showering is also better done with no clothes on

Gavster wrote: Wed Jul 03, 2024 10:16 am

V8Granite wrote: Wed Jul 03, 2024 10:02 am They made a few of the women in the group uncomfortable.

Completely understandable.

Dave!

Do you know what they were scared of happening that might have caused that discomfort? Or are these women scared of people of people with non-binary genders outside of bathrooms too?