OV9

Well someone better come up with something before it’s shite houses and massive supermarkets as far as the eye can see

ZedLeg wrote: Tue Nov 26, 2024 2:34 pm

Swervin_Mervin wrote: Tue Nov 26, 2024 2:32 pm

Rich B wrote: Tue Nov 26, 2024 2:24 pm well a quick search online shows that Savills have 287 farms for sale in the uk right now - are all of those going to landbanks?

They might well do in a few weeks when the Gov't publish their revised National Planning Policy Framework which is already leading to an absolute gold-rush on land and development before it's even been published. All that greenbelt agricultural land that's surrounds the urban areas, which is the most likely to be the most valuable agricultural land is suddenly going to seem very appealing to its owners to sell up.

Every time I go home more of the green belt around Edinburgh has had shite suburban schemes built on it.

I'm genuinely not overstating that there is currently a monumental bumrush of developers seeking to get applications in on land they've had for years but that has been left on the books because it would have no chance of getting approved due to planning policy. Rayner has torn all those old rules up, and decades' worth of undevelopable land is now being brought forward. The last 3mo has been insane, and next year I fully expect that the planning system that has been running on fumes for years will finally collapse under the weight.

Speaking purely selfishly, it's great for our business - certainly in the immediate term.

Gavster wrote: Tue Nov 26, 2024 2:28 pm I suspect that anyone buying smaller farms, who are not large institutions investors, are people like Clarkson and Andy Cato, who have saved or earned £££ from their work, or perhaps sold a London property, and want to buy a farm to give farming a go. If you went into a bank and asked for a loan to buy land to farm, with the sole intention of repaying the loan with farming income, you'd be laughed out the building.

I expect there a few more like Clarkson, but i expect the majority would start small and grow, using a business loan/grant and savings, like setting up any other business.

Farmers starting out don’t buy farms. They take on farms for other landowners and become tenant farmers.

Rich B wrote: Tue Nov 26, 2024 2:38 pm

Gavster wrote: Tue Nov 26, 2024 2:28 pm If you went into a bank and asked for a loan to buy land to farm, with the sole intention of repaying the loan with farming income, you'd be laughed out the building.

... but i expect the majority would start small and grow, using a business loan/grant...

We clearly disagree fundamentally on this one

ZedLeg wrote: Tue Nov 26, 2024 2:44 pm Farmers starting out don’t buy farms. They take on farms for other landowners and become tenant farmers.

According to the gov, 54% of farms are owner occupied and 44% of the farms sold last year were to actual farmers. So there are clearly is a lot falling into private investment, but that also leaves half the farms being bought by farmers to farm.

They must be profitable, even with the cost of buying them factored in.

Honestly the numbers simply don't add up Rich, it's a labour of love.

We’ve already explained, he hasn’t looked into it himself but he’s sure he’s right.

Rich B has gone full internet

ZedLeg wrote: Tue Nov 26, 2024 3:12 pm We’ve already explained, he hasn’t looked into it himself but he’s sure he’s right.

Rich B has gone fill internet

fill internet?

Fat handed moment

Gavster wrote: Tue Nov 26, 2024 3:08 pm Honestly the numbers simply don't add up Rich, it's a labour of love.

I’m happy to agree 100% as that’s not really the axe i’m here to grind. But let’s look at the actual question i asked in the first place.

If you have a £5m farm with all the existing equipment handed to you, are you really only going to make £20k a year profit?!

ZedLeg wrote: Tue Nov 26, 2024 3:17 pm Fat handed moment

Maybe a sign to have a proper discussion rather than hand out insults then? - Gav is able to.

Rich B wrote: Tue Nov 26, 2024 3:21 pm

ZedLeg wrote: Tue Nov 26, 2024 3:17 pm Fat handed moment

Maybe a sign to have a proper discussion rather than hand out insults then? - Gav is able to.

I’ve been trying to, you aren’t listening.

Rich B wrote: Tue Nov 26, 2024 3:20 pm

Gavster wrote: Tue Nov 26, 2024 3:08 pm Honestly the numbers simply don't add up Rich, it's a labour of love.

I’m happy to agree 100% as that’s not really the axe i’m here to grind. But let’s look at the actual question i asked in the first place.

If you have a £5m farm with all the existing equipment handed to you, are you really only going to make £20k a year profit?!

Harry’s Farm just gets over £30k on a good year.

Rich B wrote: Tue Nov 26, 2024 3:20 pm

Gavster wrote: Tue Nov 26, 2024 3:08 pm Honestly the numbers simply don't add up Rich, it's a labour of love.

I’m happy to agree 100% as that’s not really the axe i’m here to grind. But let’s look at the actual question i asked in the first place.

If you have a £5m farm with all the existing equipment handed to you, are you really only going to make £20k a year profit?!

The value of the equipment land and buildings don't have any impact on profit if it's a bad season / crop etc

Rich B wrote: Tue Nov 26, 2024 3:20 pm

Gavster wrote: Tue Nov 26, 2024 3:08 pm Honestly the numbers simply don't add up Rich, it's a labour of love.

I’m happy to agree 100% as that’s not really the axe i’m here to grind. But let’s look at the actual question i asked in the first place.

If you have a £5m farm with all the existing equipment handed to you, are you really only going to make £20k a year profit?!

Just thinking of this from a business perspective it's surely rational to spent almost all profits on tax deductible items such as new plant, machinery, pick up trucks, barns etc and just leave a tiny amount for the farmer to pay minimal tax? So I would expect a tiny profit to be the norm.

Broccers wrote: Tue Nov 26, 2024 3:26 pm
The value of the equipment land and buildings don't have any impact on profit if it's a bad season / crop etc

Not if you inherited them.

Does if you are paying a loan/mortgage for that land/buidlings/equipment.

Rich B wrote: Tue Nov 26, 2024 3:20 pm

Gavster wrote: Tue Nov 26, 2024 3:08 pm Honestly the numbers simply don't add up Rich, it's a labour of love.

I’m happy to agree 100% as that’s not really the axe i’m here to grind. But let’s look at the actual question i asked in the first place.

If you have a £5m farm with all the existing equipment handed to you, are you really only going to make £20k a year profit?!

Does the £5m include a farmhouse? E.g. what's the value of the farmed land? Let's say it was £4m of arable land, which at an estimate of £11k/acre would be 363 acres or 147 hectares (https://rural.struttandparker.com/artic ... r-2023-24/).

If they grew wheat on that arable land, the estimated average net margin for arable farms this year is £258 per hectare, which equals £37,926, slightly under 1% (https://rural.struttandparker.com/artic ... vest-2024/)

Let's assume you had a mortgage to buy the land (you wouldn't, but lets pretend), the approximate monthly repayments on a 25 year, £4 million mortgage are going to be over £20k a month, or £240k a year, which leaves an annual loss of just over £200k.

Is that what you're getting at?

In general people on small farms don’t own much beyond a tractor and some pto equipment for it.

Stuff like seeding rigs, Combines, bailers etc are usually run by contractors that are hired for the time needed and will work multiple farms.

Broccers wrote: Tue Nov 26, 2024 3:26 pm

Rich B wrote: Tue Nov 26, 2024 3:20 pm

Gavster wrote: Tue Nov 26, 2024 3:08 pm Honestly the numbers simply don't add up Rich, it's a labour of love.

I’m happy to agree 100% as that’s not really the axe i’m here to grind. But let’s look at the actual question i asked in the first place.

If you have a £5m farm with all the existing equipment handed to you, are you really only going to make £20k a year profit?!

The value of the equipment land and buildings don't have any impact on profit if it's a bad season / crop etc

Paying mortgages/ business loans on land and leasing/ buying equipment would certainly affect your profit.