OV9

Because Boris knows that doing that would mean that a significant proportion of his electors would defect to the BXP. He's having to deal with the rotting corpse of May's administration that burnt through the Tory's political capital by agreeing multiple extensions to attempt get a deal through that was never going to pass. In effect May delivered us into this mess by fudging an election, losing a majority, getting a terrible deal she couldn't pass and then pissing off her own voters.

Well, like May - he wanted the job. He can hardly complain!

You can always complain about the previous administration/government/opposition! First rule of politics is blame someone else

He can't complain about losing a working majority when he expelled so many of his own party.

Last election, the one before, the next one, it'll be the same: Brexit is not an issue which is divided down party lines and even if the Tories got an actual majority after an election, that's no guarantee that they'd get a no deal Brexit past the House.

Anyone clamouring for an election when the last one was more recent than the referendum really needs to have a word with themselves; a second referendum on the actual options open to us is a far more likely way to break the deadlock.

Jobbo wrote: Thu Sep 26, 2019 4:04 pm Anyone clamouring for an election when the last one was more recent than the referendum really needs to have a word with themselves; a second referendum on the actual options open to us is a far more likely way to break the deadlock.

Youre out of touch. The vast majority of Labour supporters will not vote for them this time, they actually like Boris as he at least is trying to get things done. But what do I know

Someone coming up with a workable Brexit solution that could get through Parliament would be good. Or even a realistic plan to work together to start finding a solution. Boris has got nothing. It’s obvious that he planned to scare Parliament into voting for May’s WA at the 11th hour to avoid No Deal and he’s fucking blown it.

Broccers wrote: Thu Sep 26, 2019 4:11 pm

Jobbo wrote: Thu Sep 26, 2019 4:04 pm Anyone clamouring for an election when the last one was more recent than the referendum really needs to have a word with themselves; a second referendum on the actual options open to us is a far more likely way to break the deadlock.

Youre out of touch. The vast majority of Labour supporters will not vote for them this time, they actually like Boris as he at least is trying to get things done. But what do I know

That's not true.

ZedLeg wrote: Thu Sep 26, 2019 4:17 pm

Broccers wrote: Thu Sep 26, 2019 4:11 pm

Jobbo wrote: Thu Sep 26, 2019 4:04 pm Anyone clamouring for an election when the last one was more recent than the referendum really needs to have a word with themselves; a second referendum on the actual options open to us is a far more likely way to break the deadlock.

Youre out of touch. The vast majority of Labour supporters will not vote for them this time, they actually like Boris as he at least is trying to get things done. But what do I know

That's not true.

Maybe in Scotland but here in Yorkshire it very much is

So what you meant when you said vast majority was some folk you've talked to.

ZedLeg wrote: Thu Sep 26, 2019 4:23 pm So what you meant when you said vast majority was some folk you've talked to.

OK dude. I'm sure if I said black is white you would disagree but thats your prerogative.

Broccers wrote: Thu Sep 26, 2019 4:25 pm

ZedLeg wrote: Thu Sep 26, 2019 4:23 pm So what you meant when you said vast majority was some folk you've talked to.

OK dude. I'm sure if I said black is white you would disagree but thats your prerogative.

I work in an office of mostly middle class professionals.

It was quite a Tory office.

It's....really not now. Not after yesterdays performance.

They're still mostly Brexity, but even they've been discoloured by recent events.

We can sling anecdotes around all day though. The fact is that a general election is a fucking stupid thing to do, as it'd be a single issue general election - pretty much like the last one - and if you're going to have a single issue vote then....well, that's what a referendum is for.

Beany wrote: Thu Sep 26, 2019 4:32 pm

Broccers wrote: Thu Sep 26, 2019 4:25 pm

ZedLeg wrote: Thu Sep 26, 2019 4:23 pm So what you meant when you said vast majority was some folk you've talked to.

OK dude. I'm sure if I said black is white you would disagree but thats your prerogative.

I work in an office of mostly middle class professionals.

It was quite a Tory office.

It's....really not now. Not after yesterdays performance.

They're still mostly Brexity, but even they've been discoloured by recent events.

We can sling anecdotes around all day though. The fact is that a general election is a fucking stupid thing to do, as it'd be a single issue general election - pretty much like the last one - and if you're going to have a single issue vote then....well, that's what a referendum is for.

While I said lots of Labour supporters liked Boris whether they would vote for him is up in the air. Brexit party probably would be where their x would go. I used to vote Lib Dems but not any longer.

I'm well aware that plenty of traditional Labour voters won't now vote for them in an election, and plenty of traditional Tory voters won't vote Conservative either. The consequence is that we'll almost certainly end up with no overall majority and a rather unpredictable coalition, since none of the parties seem to want to get into bed with the others.

Even if there were a Brexit Party/Tory coalition, it doesn't necessarily follow that the House will have a majority for No Deal.

Beany wrote: Thu Sep 26, 2019 4:32 pm

Broccers wrote: Thu Sep 26, 2019 4:25 pm

ZedLeg wrote: Thu Sep 26, 2019 4:23 pm So what you meant when you said vast majority was some folk you've talked to.

OK dude. I'm sure if I said black is white you would disagree but thats your prerogative.

I work in an office of mostly middle class professionals.

It was quite a Tory office.

It's....really not now. Not after yesterdays performance.

They're still mostly Brexity, but even they've been discoloured by recent events.

We can sling anecdotes around all day though. The fact is that a general election is a fucking stupid thing to do, as it'd be a single issue general election - pretty much like the last one - and if you're going to have a single issue vote then....well, that's what a referendum is for.

I work in a big workshop on my own and occasionally stray onto the internet for just long enough to remind me how much I like working on my own nowadays. People are terrible.

NotoriousREV wrote: Thu Sep 26, 2019 4:13 pm Someone coming up with a workable Brexit solution that could get through Parliament would be good. Or even a realistic plan to work together to start finding a solution. Boris has got nothing. It’s obvious that he planned to scare Parliament into voting for May’s WA at the 11th hour to avoid No Deal and he’s fucking blown it.

I think Boris/Cummings genuinely intended to force through No Deal.

I'm sure they did - knowing the EU is not likely to compromise on the backstop and therefore no withdrawal agreement ratification is likely.

In the absence of a GE and an 'active' no deal policy (there's no real likelihood of a 2nd ref being voted for in parliament, even less so a revocation), by process of deduction you can only conclude no deal through exasperation of the EU is the most likely route now.

I agree that it might be Boris/Cummings' tactic to make the EU lose patience with us, but I don't think they will. Expelling countries from the EU isn't something which they do; and since there's already been approval within the EU to a further extension I think that is borne out by their actions.

GG. wrote: Thu Sep 26, 2019 5:00 pm I'm sure they did - knowing the EU is not likely to compromise on the backstop and therefore no withdrawal agreement ratification is likely.

In the absence of a GE and an 'active' no deal policy (there's no real likelihood of a 2nd ref being voted for in parliament, even less so a revocation), by process of deduction you can only conclude no deal through exasperation of the EU is the most likely route now.

Why? Why not just go for No Deal? Is it because they know it'll be a disaster and they want to blame someone else? That doesn't say a lot for it as a strategy, does it?

Because I don't believe that is their preferred option - I expect they just recognise its the only possible one and the form of deal they would prefer is not achievable given the time wasted and the political capital the EU has invested in the WA meaning they won't ditch much, if any of the substance of that and a lot of the substance of that (equivalence, etc.) is really bad - worse than no deal bad as you end up with a form of BRINO!

I genuinely thought there was some sort of compromise (WA less backstop or NI only backstop) but I don't think its realistic now.

NotoriousREV wrote: Thu Sep 26, 2019 5:16 pm Is it because they know it'll be a disaster and they want to blame someone else?

How is no deal a disaster? Predicting the future is a great skill.