OV9

The problem is that some folk don’t want people different from them near them, so people end up ghettoised. Ghettos aren’t a success in any policy.

ZedLeg wrote: Tue Jun 25, 2024 2:08 pm I meant like if you called me a jock, I might go that’s racist. It isn’t though.

but what is it though, that is the question!

We can't pull people up for misunderstanding a word that we then use completely wrongly the next second!

Or, we just accept that language is full of weird quirks that don't really follow the rules perfectly.

That last one.

Rich B wrote: Tue Jun 25, 2024 11:46 am

Nefarious wrote: Tue Jun 25, 2024 11:41 am

V8Granite wrote: Mon Jun 24, 2024 9:19 am Love thy neighbour, don’t cheat, don’t steal, don’t be a bully.

Everything I was told by my parents and at my C of E school. It really isn’t more complicated than that. It certainly isn’t a Christianity led thing as many parts of Christianity are evil and disgusting. It’s just grouped together like that.

Thing is, Dave, if it were just about being a decent human being, then it wouldn't be an immigration issue, would it? Maybe a moral leadership issue, or at the far end of the scale, a criminal justice issue. So unless you're saying that other races/religions are naturally predisposed to a lack of human decency, cheating, stealing, bullying etc, why would you feel the need to raise the issue in terms of your proposed immigration policy?

To be fair, some other races/religions are naturally disposed to plenty of practices we deem totally unacceptable (both morally and legally).

My point was that Farage's comments weren't an innocent call for a nation based on the values of decency, they were deliberately fueling the fires of racism.

If what you want is to stand on a manifesto of "Christian" values (whatever they might be) you set out a range of policies to achieve that - new laws to tackle cheating, stealing and bullying (if that's your issue), new funding for church schools, community groups etc etc.

If what you are concerned about is women being coercively controlled, you stand on a platform of legislative support for women's rights and greater funding for women's support groups.

If you think there are "no go zones" in our cities, you promise more community police and investment in urban regeneration.

The only time you would declare that you would seek to solve these perceived problems through blanket controls on immigration is if you're really saying "wink wink, I hate non-english people too, and I'll use the facade of 'cultural values' to discriminate against them"

Nefarious wrote: Tue Jun 25, 2024 2:33 pm
If what you want is to stand on a manifesto of "Christian" values (whatever they might be) you set out a range of policies to achieve that - new laws to tackle cheating, stealing and bullying (if that's your issue), new funding for church schools, community groups etc etc.

Again, we seem to be focused on exact words - I'm not sure that love thy neighbour is as specific as popping next door and finger blasting Deborah at number 14, even if that is what the words say.

Christian values should basically boil down to "don't be a cunt".

But yes I totally agree, Farage is absolutely fuelling racism/racists to get support from the "everyday guy down the pub".

Rich B wrote: Tue Jun 25, 2024 2:46 pm Christian values should basically boil down to "don't be a cunt".

Ironic that this history of Christianity has basically been going round the world being kinda cunty

Nefarious wrote: Tue Jun 25, 2024 2:57 pm

Rich B wrote: Tue Jun 25, 2024 2:46 pm Christian values should basically boil down to "don't be a cunt".

Ironic that this history of Christianity has basically been going round the world being kinda cunty

i'm sure sky fairy told them it was the right thing to do or something.

Rich B wrote: Tue Jun 25, 2024 3:04 pm

Nefarious wrote: Tue Jun 25, 2024 2:57 pm

Rich B wrote: Tue Jun 25, 2024 2:46 pm Christian values should basically boil down to "don't be a cunt".

Ironic that this history of Christianity has basically been going round the world being kinda cunty

i'm sure sky fairy told them it was the right thing to do or something.

Indeed, but their particular sky fairy seems to have had a bit of a hardon for starting wars, mass genocide, general oppression and persecution of anyone deemed different. Actually, maybe Farage genuinely did mean "Christian" values after all

ZedLeg wrote: Tue Jun 25, 2024 2:25 pm The problem is that some folk don’t want people different from them near them, so people end up ghettoised. Ghettos aren’t a success in any policy.

This is what happened when immigration really started to speed up and suddenly everyone hates each other.
Where I grew up was lovely beforehand.

Dave!

I think there’s a combination of issues there, one is that in a lot of instances british people only want to engage with immigrants on their own terms, which imo is slightly unfair.

The second thing is hysteria drummed up by people who don’t even live there.

I live near Govanhill and if you only listen to the news it’s a hellhole ghetto where people shit in the street. In reality it’s fine. Yeah, it’s a poor area but it’s incredibly welcoming and friendly.

People believe the shit soaked hellhole story anyway.

ZedLeg wrote: Tue Jun 25, 2024 3:26 pm
I live near Govanhill and if you only listen to the news it’s a hellhole ghetto where people shit in the street.

You on the South Side now? You've just given me instant cravings for fried Beetroot Gnocchi from The Bungo. I'll never make it 'til dinner without snacking now.

Yeah, moved to Mount Florida to be closer to work just as they made me wfh.

The job I found recently is at Kinning Park though so it all worked out .

Nefarious wrote: Tue Jun 25, 2024 3:09 pm Indeed, but their particular sky fairy seems to have had a bit of a hardon for starting wars, mass genocide, general oppression and persecution of anyone deemed different. Actually, maybe Farage genuinely did mean "Christian" values after all

Well the top four commandments are all about how important this particular sky fairy is and how no other sky fairys can be tolerated.

Doesn't get around to murder, theft, adultery and lying until the tail end of the rules.

Keeping the Sabbath holy is gonna really fuck the GP weekend too.

Just got through my postal vote stuff so it just got more real, been trying to trawl through the manifestos and I'm really struggling to find anything anywhere that makes me want to vote for someone in particular. It's really difficult this year.

duncs500 wrote: Wed Jun 26, 2024 9:00 am Just got through my postal vote stuff so it just got more real, been trying to trawl through the manifestos and I'm really struggling to find anything anywhere that makes me want to vote for someone in particular. It's really difficult this year.

The same in South Kesteven.

It was easy before as the local Lib Dem candidate wanted to look after the local library, now it’s fliers with buzzwords telling me nothing about anyone.

Dave!

My wife's postal vote arrived last week. I had a look at the form to see who the candidates were - she also asked me who the fuck the SDP were. I wouldn't have known if it hadn't been for someone posting on this very forum about Richard Brunning becoming an SDP candidate. The SDP seem to be fielding candidates across the country but don't seem to be pushing their message very hard - or is that just me? Not that I support them; being quiet allows them to hide their true colours behind a veneer of being something to do with David Owen.

Jobbo wrote: Wed Jun 26, 2024 2:03 pm My wife's postal vote arrived last week. I had a look at the form to see who the candidates were - she also asked me who the fuck the SDP were. I wouldn't have known if it hadn't been for someone posting on this very forum about Richard Brunning becoming an SDP candidate. The SDP seem to be fielding candidates across the country but don't seem to be pushing their message very hard - or is that just me? Not that I support them; being quiet allows them to hide their true colours behind a veneer of being something to do with David Owen.

There was a Party Political Broadcast by them last week and the very same "who the f*** are they?" question was uttered. I hadn't twigged it was the lot he's in with.

Apparently there’s been someone going round Glasgow southside dropping Reform flyers. Doesn’t appear to be stopping to talk to anyone though, I wonder why

V8Granite wrote: Wed Jun 26, 2024 9:09 am

duncs500 wrote: Wed Jun 26, 2024 9:00 am Just got through my postal vote stuff so it just got more real, been trying to trawl through the manifestos and I'm really struggling to find anything anywhere that makes me want to vote for someone in particular. It's really difficult this year.

The same in South Kesteven.

It was easy before as the local Lib Dem candidate wanted to look after the local library, now it’s fliers with buzzwords telling me nothing about anyone.

Dave!

The pamphlets for this election are a joke, we went away and had to wade through this lot when we opened the door:



And there have been many more before and since. Shameful waste of paper. I'm tempted to vote Green as they are the only party not to spam us (quite rightly).

*Accident non-political one included.

I'm not sure we've had any leaflets at all? To be fair, the only signs I've seen around here (Tory central) have been a few Lib Dem ones. No one voting Tory round here wants to be seen!