OV9

Sundayjumper wrote: Thu Nov 21, 2024 10:30 am
They won’t use them with nuclear payloads.

One would hope not!

I just mean, something like that pops up into the stratosphere and I'm sure a few bells and whistles start going off.

Given the state of the rest of Russia's military, I'd be surprised if they've got any functioning nukes left. They need a fair bit of maintenance and given the levels of corruption I'd be amazed if said maintenance had been carried out.

If they were to launch an ICBM, I'd put a tenner on it faulting out and landing on russian soil before it got anywhere else.

Aye, we were talking about it at work and the consensus was that they’d run out of fuel before they crossed a border

Not directly related, but this is a remarkable interview if you have 25mins to spare.

My Polish colleague with a Ukrainian wife is working with me again, the last time I was worried he’d go on a killing spree such is the hatred to Zelenskyy so I’ll try and find out what the hatred is for this time.

Dave!

Why does he hate Zelensky?

duncs500 wrote: Thu Nov 21, 2024 10:18 am I guess both parties know that come January they're going to be forced to come to the negotiating table, so they're going to be throwing everything at each other until then to strengthen their respective negotiating positions. Unfortunately for Ukraine it seems like Russia are gaining the upper hand, so king Donald will probably award them a bigger share of the kingdom.

Why would they be forced to come to the negotiating table? Trump is in Putin's pocket, so while he can force Ukraine by threatening to withhold arms, he's got nothing on Russia. I'm pretty sure Putin is the one holding all the aces when it comes to Trump.

Aye my assumption was that Trump would pull support for Ukraine and let Russia do their worst.

DeskJockey wrote: Thu Nov 21, 2024 5:49 pm

duncs500 wrote: Thu Nov 21, 2024 10:18 am I guess both parties know that come January they're going to be forced to come to the negotiating table, so they're going to be throwing everything at each other until then to strengthen their respective negotiating positions. Unfortunately for Ukraine it seems like Russia are gaining the upper hand, so king Donald will probably award them a bigger share of the kingdom.

Why would they be forced to come to the negotiating table? Trump is in Putin's pocket, so while he can force Ukraine by threatening to withhold arms, he's got nothing on Russia. I'm pretty sure Putin is the one holding all the aces when it comes to Trump.

I don't think Russia really want the war to go on for years and years either. Putin needs to be seen to have 'won', but the longer the war goes on the less popular it will become at home.

I agree with you. But equally I don't think he wants to be forced to the table, that won't be a win, he'll set the terms and Trump will roll over and hope for a belly rub.

DeskJockey wrote: Thu Nov 21, 2024 5:49 pm

duncs500 wrote: Thu Nov 21, 2024 10:18 am I guess both parties know that come January they're going to be forced to come to the negotiating table, so they're going to be throwing everything at each other until then to strengthen their respective negotiating positions. Unfortunately for Ukraine it seems like Russia are gaining the upper hand, so king Donald will probably award them a bigger share of the kingdom.

Why would they be forced to come to the negotiating table? Trump is in Putin's pocket, so while he can force Ukraine by threatening to withhold arms, he's got nothing on Russia. I'm pretty sure Putin is the one holding all the aces when it comes to Trump.

Putin has the peepee tapes of Trump.

Trump will most likely pull US funding for Ukraine. Will have to see if Europe then steps up to fill the gap but as it is Ukraine should be alright until the summer in terms of all that. I think there's a lot riding on their recent allowance to fire foreign missiles at Russia. If they can't turn things around with that added capability it will be pointless continuing funding to prolong the war.

Simon wrote: Thu Nov 21, 2024 9:39 pm Putin has the peepee tapes of Trump.

Given everything that has happened, I can't imagine any of the Republican party, or Republican voters, caring in the slightest about that. Weird sex stuff is almost compulsory to get a job with Donald. There must be something far better if Putin truly has leverage over him.

Probably a simple threat to his life then. We've seen anti-putin peeps jump out of windows all across the world - I doubt even the President is completely safe...

duncs500 wrote: Thu Nov 21, 2024 7:51 pm

DeskJockey wrote: Thu Nov 21, 2024 5:49 pm

duncs500 wrote: Thu Nov 21, 2024 10:18 am I guess both parties know that come January they're going to be forced to come to the negotiating table, so they're going to be throwing everything at each other until then to strengthen their respective negotiating positions. Unfortunately for Ukraine it seems like Russia are gaining the upper hand, so king Donald will probably award them a bigger share of the kingdom.

Why would they be forced to come to the negotiating table? Trump is in Putin's pocket, so while he can force Ukraine by threatening to withhold arms, he's got nothing on Russia. I'm pretty sure Putin is the one holding all the aces when it comes to Trump.

I don't think Russia really want the war to go on for years and years either. Putin needs to be seen to have 'won', but the longer the war goes on the less popular it will become at home.

If they've not had a revolt yet, I doubt it'll ever happen. Despite the fact it must be well know that getting drafted means you're never coming home and basically being pushed into a meat grinder - it's been made pretty clear what happens to those who voice there concerns internally. As usual, fear is a great motivator.

Ukraine are unfortunately, fucked. I don't see an acceptable way out for them. I've no doubt Trump will pull the funding....

The animated map of Russia gaining territory this year isn't looking good for Ukraine.
https://www.ft.com/content/4351d5b0-088 ... c4dfbccbf5
I think Ukraine will be lucky to only lose Crimea and Donetsk in any potential negotiations.

I don’t think Putin is holding anything over Trump tbh, he just likes strongman leaders.

Trump probably just sees a large country full of natural resources and corrupt people, plenty of potential to enrich himself. I shouldn't think he feels threatened by Putin, he will also want to have some sort of win in terms of saying he did what he said and ended the war quickly (albeit it might be something that's spun in that direction rather than a real win).

duncs500 wrote: Thu Nov 21, 2024 12:16 pm

Sundayjumper wrote: Thu Nov 21, 2024 10:30 am They won’t use them with nuclear payloads.

One would hope not!

I just mean, something like that pops up into the stratosphere and I'm sure a few bells and whistles start going off.

It appears it was actually an Intermediate Range Ballistic Missile (IRBM), and was used:

a) as an attempt at a show of strength
b) because they're running out of more appropriate weapons