OV9

NotoriousREV wrote: Mon Jul 09, 2018 7:43 pm

dinny_g wrote: Mon Jul 09, 2018 7:39 pm

NotoriousREV wrote: Mon Jul 09, 2018 7:30 pm

If we withdraw Art 50, nothing changes from where we were pre-referendum.

Do you honestly believe we’ll go right back to where we were if we roll back on Art 50??

Legally, nothing will change. We retain our voting rights, our vetoes, our exemptions.

Appreciate that legally the situation will be the same (assuming no new rules are stipulated by the other member states as a condition of withdrawing from Art 50)

I just don’t see the other 26 welcoming us back with open arms saying all is forgiven, as before. The piper needs to be paid, one way or another...

GG. wrote: Mon Jul 09, 2018 7:52 pm

Orange Cola wrote: Mon Jul 09, 2018 7:44 pm
Currently the commodity is produced in the European plants because it's the only way we can import the commodity tariff free and we can nip over with a couple of forty footers twice a week and bring it back.

Can't do that any more when we exit.

Hang on a minute - you're talking about imports again. Are you assuming that whatever it is that you're talking about will have a tariff slapped on it by the UK when we leave - has that been posed as a definite? I'm asking you a genuine question.

Also, the way things are heading, with TM's formulation you needn't worry about it because we won't be leaving that tariff free zone (or indeed really Brexiting).

In which case, roll Article 50 back and carry on as normal.

If the EU apply tariffs to our exports, what would happen if we didn’t apply tariffs to EU goods inbound to us? We’d be disadvantaging our own industry. It just won’t happen.

NotoriousREV wrote: Mon Jul 09, 2018 7:51 pm

GG. wrote: Mon Jul 09, 2018 7:45 pm

dinny_g wrote: Mon Jul 09, 2018 7:39 pm

Do you honestly believe we’ll go right back to where we were if we roll back on Art 50??

Seemingly. It makes as much sense as a lot of the other stuff he's saying.

Which foods do you think we’ll stop importing from the EU? Which countries will we source them from?

Oranges. South Africa.

Seemingly the EU (and Spanish orange producers) thought there was a significant enough threat from South African producers to triple Orange duties from non-EU countries.

I know you've asked for hard examples and it makes you even angrier when I provide it so i'll just get "I DONT EAT ORANGES. ORANGES ARE STUPID. BREXIT IS STUPID" as a response, but there we go.

We can do this till the cows come home but it really doesn't add to the sum of human knowledge.

NotoriousREV wrote: Mon Jul 09, 2018 7:55 pm

GG. wrote: Mon Jul 09, 2018 7:52 pm

Orange Cola wrote: Mon Jul 09, 2018 7:44 pm
Currently the commodity is produced in the European plants because it's the only way we can import the commodity tariff free and we can nip over with a couple of forty footers twice a week and bring it back.

Can't do that any more when we exit.

Hang on a minute - you're talking about imports again. Are you assuming that whatever it is that you're talking about will have a tariff slapped on it by the UK when we leave - has that been posed as a definite? I'm asking you a genuine question.

Also, the way things are heading, with TM's formulation you needn't worry about it because we won't be leaving that tariff free zone (or indeed really Brexiting).

In which case, roll Article 50 back and carry on as normal.

If the EU apply tariffs to our exports, what would happen if we didn’t apply tariffs to EU goods inbound to us? We’d be disadvantaging our own industry. It just won’t happen.

Disadvantaging our own industry how? Not one iota from the current status quo where we can't apply tariffs to EU competitors anyway.

GG. wrote: Mon Jul 09, 2018 7:57 pm

NotoriousREV wrote: Mon Jul 09, 2018 7:51 pm

GG. wrote: Mon Jul 09, 2018 7:45 pm

Seemingly. It makes as much sense as a lot of the other stuff he's saying.

Which foods do you think we’ll stop importing from the EU? Which countries will we source them from?

Oranges. South Africa.

Seemingly the EU (and Spanish orange producers) thought there was a significant enough threat from South African producers to triple Orange duties from non-EU countries.

I know you've asked for hard examples and it makes you even angrier when I provide it so i'll just get "I DONT EAT ORANGES. ORANGES ARE STUPID. BREXIT IS STUPID" as a response, but there we go.

South Africa is already the 2nd largest fruit and veg supplier to the UK, behind Spain. So South African fruit and veg could very well get cheaper and Spanish fruit and veg could get more expensive. Net/net, I’m don’t think that counts as better overall. Certainly not a huge advantage to offset Airbus, BMW and JLR ditching the UK.

GG. wrote: Mon Jul 09, 2018 8:02 pm

NotoriousREV wrote: Mon Jul 09, 2018 7:55 pm

GG. wrote: Mon Jul 09, 2018 7:52 pm

Hang on a minute - you're talking about imports again. Are you assuming that whatever it is that you're talking about will have a tariff slapped on it by the UK when we leave - has that been posed as a definite? I'm asking you a genuine question.

Also, the way things are heading, with TM's formulation you needn't worry about it because we won't be leaving that tariff free zone (or indeed really Brexiting).

In which case, roll Article 50 back and carry on as normal.

If the EU apply tariffs to our exports, what would happen if we didn’t apply tariffs to EU goods inbound to us? We’d be disadvantaging our own industry. It just won’t happen.

Disadvantaging our own industry how? Not one iota from the current status quo where we can't apply tariffs to EU competitors anyway.

Disadvantaging them by ensuring that their products will have a tariff applied to them if they try to sell them in the worlds largest trading bloc and closest neighbour, while continuing to allow goods to arrive from that same bloc at a low cost. You’re making it harder to export whilst keeping it easy to import.

GG. wrote: Mon Jul 09, 2018 7:52 pm

Orange Cola wrote: Mon Jul 09, 2018 7:44 pm
Currently the commodity is produced in the European plants because it's the only way we can import the commodity tariff free and we can nip over with a couple of forty footers twice a week and bring it back.

Can't do that any more when we exit.

Hang on a minute - you're talking about imports again. Are you assuming that whatever it is that you're talking about will have a punitive tariff slapped on it by the UK when we leave - has that been posed as a definite? I'm asking you a genuine question.

Also, the way things are heading, with TM's formulation you needn't worry about it because we won't be leaving that tariff free zone (or indeed really Brexiting).

The only way it won't have a tariff on it is if TM gets her plan bought off as you describe. If not the following countries will want tariffs because it massively benefits their domestic manufacturers by knocking out a major competitor, so why wouldn't they follow through on their threats of imposing import tariffs:

Spain
France
Sweden
Germany
Poland
Romania
Austria
Italy

Worst scenario is the tax the commodity going out the EU, we impose a reciprocal import tax, then we pay tax again sending the final product back to the EU to be sold.

We do assemble in another country which is outside the EU, so I can outline that for you. We can set up the production line in the U.K. and abroad in country B at the same time. We can and do go through commisioning at the same time. However, because we have to export the commodities abroad to country B because they won't let us export the finished product because they realise its hurtful to their economy and employment that way, we have to send commodities in containers on a ship. You can't fly them, it wouldn't be economical. Once at country B we have to wait for their port authorities to process the admin and clear the commodities ensuring the right tax is paid. Then we can ship them to the production plant and start assembling. That process from sending the commodity in the U.K. To the getting it on an assembly line takes six months. SIX MONTHS. That whole market is lagging six months behind the others because you can't (legally) import any faster. That's six months of stock I've got tied up on a boat, in a warehouse, sat on a dock just waiting for the exchange rate to fluctuate merrily and a whole team of admin people employed to just do admin. I can't possibly do that for each country we have a trade agreement with.

BTW, it takes 30 days to sail from SA, and 24 hours from Spain. Yummy fresh fruit & veg!

This made me laugh:

I’ve missed this thread

ZedLeg wrote: Mon Jul 09, 2018 8:46 pm I’ve missed this thread

Just in time. The Gammon is done

Positives so far:

We’ll finally make the cod extinct
Turbo diesel hoovers
Cheap tampons
All fruit & veg will be at least a month old by the time it arrived in the shops

Anything I’ve missed?

Have a read of Boris resignation letter on the BBC, outlines some of the things the brexiters were apparently hoping for. Why did it take him resigning to get that much information on their view point?

You forgot the blue passports!

Beany wrote: Mon Jul 09, 2018 9:12 pm You forgot the blue passports!

Ah yes!

Positives so far:

We’ll finally make the cod extinct
Turbo diesel hoovers
Cheap tampons
All fruit & veg will be at least a month old by the time it arrived in the shops
French-manufactured blue passports (possibly subject to import tariffs)

Anything I’ve missed?

Short and medium term GDP drop and recognition that no one can predict the long term outcome.
Errm, love island will probably be hosted on the Isle of Lewis next year.

Rich B wrote: Mon Jul 09, 2018 7:42 pm Unsurprisingly, Cunts want cheap tampons.

I love how this thread goes between serious political arguments and piss taking.

NotoriousREV wrote: Mon Jul 09, 2018 9:15 pm Positives so far:

We’ll finally make the cod extinct
Turbo diesel hoovers
Cheap tampons
All fruit & veg will be at least a month old by the time it arrived in the shops
French-manufactured blue passports (possibly subject to import tariffs)

Anything I’ve missed?

Alienating thousands of skilled workers already here, causing a deepening recruitment crisis in healthcare and medicine (among others)
Alienating thousands of unskilled workers who picks the seasonal crops, ensuring it'll rot in the fields while farmers go bankrupt
Diminishing Britain's role in the world
Putting strain on the union

Does that count as winning?

I’m in charge of a team of 105 people. About 30% of those are from the EU. Immediately after the referendum result, we saw an instant drop in applications from EU citizens and we’ve lost several who have moved either back home or other EU countries. These aren’t cheap workers coming into minimum wage jobs; these are highly skilled software engineers from Italy, Spain, Portugal, Germany, Poland, Lithuania, Latvia, Serbia. They bring skills that we simply can’t get hold of in large enough numbers in the UK (we even run an academy every year to train people from scratch to try to alleviate this problem). But yeah, immigration is bad and needs more control