Bye Bye Boris!
Re: Bye Bye Boris!
Apologies if I'm misunderstanding, but that all sounds EXACTLY like the symptoms of poverty:
Primarily cash/black economy
Snazzy cars bought on tick
Petty crime
Poverty, in a first world context, doesn't necessarily mean people starving or begging on the streets. It means lack of security and a sense of desperation that leads people to look for survival and security through their pre-established social tribes and engage increasingly in crime and other activities outside the mainstream economy.
Again, I ask - what is specific about these people being non-British that creates the problem, and would you still be looking to the same solutions if they were born in the uk?
I spent my late teens and early 20s in Camberwell/Elephant (south london). It was rough-ish, but with exactly the same issues you describe (street crime, open black economy, etc etc). The population was primarily white uk-born, with maybe 20-25% afro-Caribbean. Of course the same allegations were levelled - its "them" who are causing the problems; "they" aren't like us; "they" don't want to integrate etc etc. They truth was that mostly everyone was struggling to one extent or another, and when people are forced to fight for their share of the pie, there is always a tendency to turn against your immediate rivals for the scraps you've been forced to share.
Primarily cash/black economy
Snazzy cars bought on tick
Petty crime
Poverty, in a first world context, doesn't necessarily mean people starving or begging on the streets. It means lack of security and a sense of desperation that leads people to look for survival and security through their pre-established social tribes and engage increasingly in crime and other activities outside the mainstream economy.
Again, I ask - what is specific about these people being non-British that creates the problem, and would you still be looking to the same solutions if they were born in the uk?
I spent my late teens and early 20s in Camberwell/Elephant (south london). It was rough-ish, but with exactly the same issues you describe (street crime, open black economy, etc etc). The population was primarily white uk-born, with maybe 20-25% afro-Caribbean. Of course the same allegations were levelled - its "them" who are causing the problems; "they" aren't like us; "they" don't want to integrate etc etc. They truth was that mostly everyone was struggling to one extent or another, and when people are forced to fight for their share of the pie, there is always a tendency to turn against your immediate rivals for the scraps you've been forced to share.
"If everything seems under control, you're just not going fast enough"
Re: Bye Bye Boris!
I can see what you mean.Nefarious wrote: ↑Fri Sep 27, 2019 7:07 pm Apologies if I'm misunderstanding, but that all sounds EXACTLY like the symptoms of poverty:
Primarily cash/black economy
Snazzy cars bought on tick
Petty crime
Poverty, in a first world context, doesn't necessarily mean people starving or begging on the streets. It means lack of security and a sense of desperation that leads people to look for survival and security through their pre-established social tribes and engage increasingly in crime and other activities outside the mainstream economy.
Again, I ask - what is specific about these people being non-British that creates the problem, and would you still be looking to the same solutions if they were born in the uk?
I spent my late teens and early 20s in Camberwell/Elephant (south london). It was rough-ish, but with exactly the same issues you describe (street crime, open black economy, etc etc). The population was primarily white uk-born, with maybe 20-25% afro-Caribbean. Of course the same allegations were levelled - its "them" who are causing the problems; "they" aren't like us; "they" don't want to integrate etc etc. They truth was that mostly everyone was struggling to one extent or another, and when people are forced to fight for their share of the pie, there is always a tendency to turn against your immediate rivals for the scraps you've been forced to share.
Before you had just arseholes causing trouble, now it’s organised groups. It also happened really quickly. Maybe it would have happened without such large groups but then why would they separate themselves when people never used to do that ? Plus the 80s in Peterborough was hardly full of milk and honey.
Maybe the place was destined to go in this direction anyway but doing more of the same just seems crazy to me.
A placeholder on this thread for 10 years time. We are either an island destitute and feeding on scraps or part of the EU collective and readying ourselves for conscription.
Dave!
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Re: Bye Bye Boris!
There's a Danish saying that comes to mind when I read this. It roughly translates as "a surplus is needed to foster generosity of spirit and openness of mind". While it is a generalisation and there will always be those that buck the trend, I've found it to be mostly true, something I also saw in Longbridge in 2008 while doing research for my degree.
It is difficult to be open and generous if your own foundations are shaky and it doesn't take much to start the "them and us", irrespective of what dividing line is used.
It is difficult to be open and generous if your own foundations are shaky and it doesn't take much to start the "them and us", irrespective of what dividing line is used.
---
Driving a Galaxy far far away
Driving a Galaxy far far away
Re: Bye Bye Boris!
For what it’s worth, I don’t believe there’ll be a return to the Troubles, no matter what happens in all this.
Northern Ireland sectarianism is driven by criminal activity more and more these days- drugs and protection rackets. (Say 20% Rev...) . That won’t change. If anything, increased security at the border will curtail the IRA’s activities a bit.
I lived through the 70’s and 80’s and those days are over thank god
Northern Ireland sectarianism is driven by criminal activity more and more these days- drugs and protection rackets. (Say 20% Rev...) . That won’t change. If anything, increased security at the border will curtail the IRA’s activities a bit.
I lived through the 70’s and 80’s and those days are over thank god
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Re: Bye Bye Boris!
Correction apart from CV cunts. That's how it goes.
Re: Bye Bye Boris!
Conclusive proof that you see what you want to see!
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Re: Bye Bye Boris!
The backstop ‘replacement’ looks interesting, I’m not sure how the government propose to actually manage it robustly though because you can’t just rely on the good nature of people to stick their hands up and pay the relevant import taxes. If it gets voted through I can see a lot of businesses wanting to re-locate to NI so they can have easier trade routes with the EU.
Mustang GT 5.0 V8 -- Jaguar F-Pace
Re: Bye Bye Boris!
Hahaha. The guy had his first mental breakdown way before Brexit was even voted on if you look into itJLv3.0 wrote: ↑Wed Oct 02, 2019 5:57 pm This you Broccers?
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2019/1 ... psychosis/
Here you go - https://www.independent.co.uk/news/heal ... 27841.html
The man recovered within a fortnight after a brief admission and treatment with olanzapine, an anti-psychotic. He had experienced a similar episode 13 years previously following work-related stress.
Re: Bye Bye Boris!
Keep taking the meds fella
Re: Bye Bye Boris!
How does it currently work? Presumably there is some excise/tax check that happens in some form? It is a foreign country after all?Orange Cola wrote: ↑Wed Oct 02, 2019 5:27 pm The backstop ‘replacement’ looks interesting, I’m not sure how the government propose to actually manage it robustly though because you can’t just rely on the good nature of people to stick their hands up and pay the relevant import taxes. If it gets voted through I can see a lot of businesses wanting to re-locate to NI so they can have easier trade routes with the EU.
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Re: Bye Bye Boris!
Freedom of movement means there’s no need for excise or tax checks. That’s what Customs Union means.
Middle-aged Dirtbag
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Re: Bye Bye Boris!
I don't get it. If the DUP are prepared to back an inland border, why not just stick it in the fvcking sea like was suggested originally?
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Re: Bye Bye Boris!
As per Revs comments. Plus, if we get a decent trade deal with the EU which is just like what we have today then we probably won’t need the checks anyway, because there will be nothing that needs checking. Assuming we get a very similar trade deal in place to what we have today then anything from outside the EU will end up going through the current usual routes into the UK anyway. One can but dreamRich B wrote: ↑Wed Oct 02, 2019 7:15 pmHow does it currently work? Presumably there is some excise/tax check that happens in some form? It is a foreign country after all?Orange Cola wrote: ↑Wed Oct 02, 2019 5:27 pm The backstop ‘replacement’ looks interesting, I’m not sure how the government propose to actually manage it robustly though because you can’t just rely on the good nature of people to stick their hands up and pay the relevant import taxes. If it gets voted through I can see a lot of businesses wanting to re-locate to NI so they can have easier trade routes with the EU.
Mustang GT 5.0 V8 -- Jaguar F-Pace
Re: Bye Bye Boris!
Ah yes, good point, what about stuff potentially originating from elsewhere though - surely there is a process for checking them?NotoriousREV wrote: ↑Wed Oct 02, 2019 7:29 pm Freedom of movement means there’s no need for excise or tax checks. That’s what Customs Union means.
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Re: Bye Bye Boris!
Checked at point of entry ie ports and airports if from outside EU.Rich B wrote: ↑Wed Oct 02, 2019 10:49 pmAh yes, good point, what about stuff potentially originating from elsewhere though - surely there is a process for checking them?NotoriousREV wrote: ↑Wed Oct 02, 2019 7:29 pm Freedom of movement means there’s no need for excise or tax checks. That’s what Customs Union means.
Middle-aged Dirtbag
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Re: Bye Bye Boris!
As an example my Mustang arrived in Amsterdam, it cleared customs there and then via the Customs Union arrangement it moved freely to the UK.NotoriousREV wrote: ↑Thu Oct 03, 2019 5:34 amChecked at point of entry ie ports and airports if from outside EU.Rich B wrote: ↑Wed Oct 02, 2019 10:49 pmAh yes, good point, what about stuff potentially originating from elsewhere though - surely there is a process for checking them?NotoriousREV wrote: ↑Wed Oct 02, 2019 7:29 pm Freedom of movement means there’s no need for excise or tax checks. That’s what Customs Union means.
What we have today is a really good trade set up. I don’t think I’ve heard a brexiteer moan about that but they think it’s worth giving up that level of easy trade for “taking back control”, which I still don’t fully understand.
Mustang GT 5.0 V8 -- Jaguar F-Pace