Bye bye Theresa

[Jackleg]

What do Brexiteers hope to accomplish by leaving?

This is a genuine question, I'm not trying to bait anyone. I'm an ardent remainer, and whilst the current system isn't prefect, I can't see any benefit to leaving. So I'm curious as to what people think we'll gain by leaving, and how long it will take us to see the benefits?


GG, try to keep it under 50,000 words please

Good luck with all of that.

Pretty sure you wont get an answer from GG, he has dodged it at every turn. I asked a family member and he hummed and hawed but essentially he fell for the bus and reads shitrags so thought workers would be better off under Westminster.

I get that some people followed what the red tops and mail etc have been saying. But, whenever I ask a Leaver why they voted to leave the answer is always vague and ephemeral; something along the lines of 'our country doesn't feel ours anymore', but they're never willing to expand on that.
The members here are generally articulate and erudite. I was hoping that they could explain what they hoped Brexit would deliver for them when they voted initially, and why they're still committed to leaving Europe.

[NotoriousREV]

You and I are looking for logical explanations for an emotional response. We’ll never get it.

[Jackleg]

I'd even take the emotions of what made them chose to vote that way and what they thought would happen.

I'm really not trying to cause an argument, I'm just curious what their thoughts are.

[dinny_g]

Just throwing an alternative view but perhaps some people didn’t vote to leave “to achieve” something but rather to prevent possible / likely somethings.

[DeskJockey]

Just throwing an alternative view but perhaps some people didn’t vote to leave “to achieve” something but rather to prevent possible / likely somethings.

Valid point. Can someone who voted leave please explain what they were trying to prevent/avoid? Genuinely curious.

[Foz]

essentially he fell for the bus and reads shitrags so thought workers would be better off under Westminster.

Basically that!

[NotoriousREV]

When this is the type of bullshit that gets spread around on Facebook unchallenged, no wonder people vote Leave. It’s ridiculous.

This is what happens when we stay in Europe

WHY IS NOBODY TALKING ABOUT THE LISBON TREATY, THE TREATY THAT COMES INTO FORCE 2020, ITS WORSE THAN THE SO CALLE DEAL, IF 99% OF THE BRITISH THINK THIS THE DEAL IS BAD JUST LOOK AT THE LISBON TREATY. PEOPLE NEED TO KNOW, LEAVERS AND REAIMERS..“What will actually happen if we stay in the EU” is a question no remainer will ever answer but here it is warts and all.
Check it out if you wish ——>>
1: The UK along with all existing members of the EU lose their abstention veto in 2020 as laid down in the Lisbon Treaty when the system changes to that of majority acceptance with no abstentions or veto’s being allowed.
2: All member nations will become states of the new federal nation of the EU by 2022 as clearly laid out in the Lisbon treaty with no exceptions or veto’s.
3: All member states must adopt the Euro by 2022 and any new member state must do so within 2 years of joining the EU as laid down in the Lisbon treaty.
4: The London stock exchange will move to Frankfurt in 2020 and be integrated into the EU stock exchange resulting in a loss of 200,000 plus jobs in the UK because of the relocation. (This has already been pre-agreed and is only on a holding pattern due to the Brexit negotiations, which if Brexit does happen, the move is fully cancelled - but if not and the UK remains a member it’s full steam ahead for the move.)
5: The EU Parliament and ECJ become supreme over all legislative bodies of the UK.
6: The UK will adopt 100% of whatever the EU Parliament and ECJ lays down without any means of abstention or veto, negating the need for the UK to have the Lords or even the Commons as we know it today.
7: The UK will NOT be able to make its own trade deals.
8: The UK will NOT be able to set its own trade tariffs.
9 The UK will NOT be able to set its own trade quotas.
10: The UK loses control of its fishing rights
11: The UK loses control of its oil and gas rights
12: The UK loses control of its borders and enters the Schengen region by 2022 - as clearly laid down in the Lisbon treaty
13: The UK loses control of its planning legislation
14: The UK loses control of its armed forces including its nuclear deterrent
15: The UK loses full control of its taxation policy
16: The UK loses the ability to create its own laws and to implement them
17: The UK loses its standing in the Commonwealths
18: The UK loses control of any provinces or affiliated nations e.g.: Falklands, Cayman Islands, Gibraltar etc
19: The UK loses control of its judicial system
20: The UK loses control of its international policy
21: The UK loses full control of its national policy
22: The UK loses its right to call itself a nation in its own right.
23: The UK loses control of its space exploration program
24: The UK loses control of its Aviation and Sea lane jurisdiction
25: The UK loses its rebate in 2020 as laid down in the Lisbon treaty
26: The UK’s contribution to the EU is set to increase by an average of 1.2bn pa and by 2.3bn pa by 2020
This is the future that the youths of today think we stole from them?
They should be on their knees thanking us for saving them from being turned into Orwellian automatons!

Please share or copy and paste!
Send to your MPs

[IanF]

Nice summary of Labour’s current position: seek any superficially plausible narrative which enables evasion of responsibility for any/all Brexit outcomes, while pretending to have a position.

[Rich B]

Flip a coin and we’ll help you decide which side to bet the country on....

So long as you can guarantee it won’t be heads - or we’ll keep catching the coin mid flip.

[Swervin_Mervin]

Just throwing an alternative view but perhaps some people didn’t vote to leave “to achieve” something but rather to prevent possible / likely somethings.

Valid point. Can someone who voted leave please explain what they were trying to prevent/avoid? Genuinely curious.

Being in the EU.

Reasons - many and varied. Some nonsense, some emotional, some historical, some logical, some for economic purposes, some for moral purposes, some for humanitarian purposes. The list is long.

Just as it might be for those that voted Remain.

[Rich B]

Out of interest, did anyone who voted leave expect anything other than what’s happened so far?

Or did you intentionally vote for exactly this - to try and fuck things up? (I heard that justification plenty of times in the run up).

[Swervin_Mervin]

Out of interest, did anyone who voted leave expect anything other than what’s happened so far?

Or did you intentionally vote for exactly this - to try and fuck things up? (I heard that justification plenty of times in the run up).

I've never heard that justification from anyone I know that voted Leave. Did you hear it from people you actually know or just what was reported in the media?

I expected a shitshow, yes, because our politicians are so utterly inept - I'll admit I probably overestimated them a bit there though. But I didn't vote to achieve a shitshow.

[Rich B]

Out of interest, did anyone who voted leave expect anything other than what’s happened so far?

Or did you intentionally vote for exactly this - to try and fuck things up? (I heard that justification plenty of times in the run up).

I've never heard that justification from anyone I know that voted Leave. Did you hear it from people you actually know or just what was reported in the media?

I expected a shitshow, yes, because our politicians are so utterly inept - I'll admit I probably overestimated them a bit there though. But I didn't vote to achieve a shitshow.

do you ever go delving into the comments on provocative posts you see on Facebook? I do, they’re hilarious (and sometimes interesting to hear opposing opinions). I don’t know the people in them but I read plenty of “I want to shake it up” or “to fuck the conservatives” etc....

[unzippy]

What do Brexiteers hope to accomplish by leaving?

This is a genuine question, I'm not trying to bait anyone. I'm an ardent remainer, and whilst the current system isn't prefect, I can't see any benefit to leaving. So I'm curious as to what people think we'll gain by leaving, and how long it will take us to see the benefits?


GG, try to keep it under 50,000 words please

Good luck with all of that.

The question is "How will Brexit improve your life?"

[unzippy]

The list is long.
Just as it might be for those that voted Remain.

I imagine the remainers voted remain because they liked the staus quo - a fairly short reason.

[JonMad]

And some voted Leave just because change is good, right.

[Jackleg]

Just throwing an alternative view but perhaps some people didn’t vote to leave “to achieve” something but rather to prevent possible / likely somethings.

Valid point. Can someone who voted leave please explain what they were trying to prevent/avoid? Genuinely curious.

Being in the EU.

Reasons - many and varied. Some nonsense, some emotional, some historical, some logical, some for economic purposes, some for moral purposes, some for humanitarian purposes. The list is long.

Just as it might be for those that voted Remain.

Can you expand on some of your reasons? Humanitarian, economic, moral?
I'm really not trying to be a cunt here, I'm genuinely interested in why you think that the country will be in a better place after leaving.
I get that some of it may well be just gut feeling, but you're obviously not one of the mouthy breathers shouting Nazi at anyone who puts up an alternative viewpoint to your own. So what made you vote the way you did?

[Broccers]

Dianne Abbott on question time was superb last night.

[dinny_g]

Debating why anyone voted Leave on here is futile, it really is.

Sitting in the pub, over a pint, perhaps but in the point / counterpoint of an Online Message board, it just not possible.

[RobYob]

I used to be thoroughly protectionist, it still enrages me that the Australian Automotive industry was decimated by free trade agreements* whereby manufacturing jobs were sacrificed to enable mining, service and agriculture industries to flourish. Other people, and arguably the national economy benefitted from this policy, personally I certainly didn't, short term at least.

Now, however having the very good fortune to inherit an EU passport I've taken advantage of freedom of movement and freedom to work and I'd be a hypocrite to support such protectionism.

BUT. I can sympathise with people who don't appreciate having their life turned upside down by globalisation and want things "wound back".

Remain has very little appeal to someone who see's "made in somewhere else" and views that as a opportunity lost for local employment.

Governments have been sleepwalking into public discontent with what were previous expected local opportunities going "elsewhere", Leave did a good job exploiting that. Remain did a rubbish job of countering it IMHO.

I can imagine (although correct me please) a hardliner No-Deal person views crashing out of the EU as a short term sacrifice to enable better opportunities for the future, perhaps not even in their lifetime but for their children or their children's children.

Are they wrong? I don't know.



*and sundry other policy decisions, but that's another topic.