Bye bye Starmer

[ZedLeg]

Depends on your priorities I guess.

I’ve been pretty vocal on what I don’t like about Starmer’s Labour and they’ve never convinced me that I was wrong.

[Alex88]

Labour MP's are fooling themselves if they think changing leader will make any meaningful difference. New leader, same poisoned chalice.

It'll just be continuation of chaos until we get to the next GE, in which a bomb will be thrown into government.

TBF, I do think it's become exceedingly difficult to govern.

[Beany]

It's almost like Labour learned nothing about how to handle the press from the Corbyn days.

As noted, the general performance of them has been broadly OK, with significant, individual fuckups that go completely against the ostensible party ethos, causing traditional labour supporters to get annoyed with them, and that then leaves them wide open for the right wing press - some 80% of circulation - to either rip them to shreds, or openly lie and put an apology on page 23 when caught out.

They're incompetent at handling their PR and I don't understand how they aren't better at it by now. They should be rolling over the Tories (and reform, frankly, given the immigration wins lately) but you hear fucking nothing about it.

Much as though I have a deep seated hatred for Blairs lot, at least they had the press mostly under control.

[Swervin_Mervin]

Labour MP's are fooling themselves if they think changing leader will make any meaningful difference. New leader, same poisoned chalice.

It'll just be continuation of chaos until we get to the next GE, in which a bomb will be thrown into government.

TBF, I do think it's become exceedingly difficult to govern.

Yep. And the media cop for a lot of the blame on why it's becoming ungovernable - continually hounding Ministers over any mistake, sign of weakness, or feelings of unpopularity amongst the masses - but the MPs themselves enable it. This is only happening because there are some within the Labour Party that are desperate for power themselves.

If it wasn't for the woeful handling of the economy I reckon he'd be fairly safe - that's why he's currently as deeply unpopular as he is, nationally.

[dinny_g]

Funny how, prior to 2024, the reason the country was ungovernable was because the Conservative Party couldn't govern it.

Now, apparently, it's the media's fault

[Mito Man]

They’ve had too many stupid scandals again, and then not handled the aftermath well. Can’t blame the media when it’s their job to scrutinise these things.
Starmer did a piss poor job of running the ship and keeping his crew in line.

[DeskJockey]

Scrutiny is one thing. The hounding relentlessness of the right-leaning/right-wing press is a different matter.

[Mito Man]

But that's what the people want. This is a natural progression of democracy, freedom, equal rights and inclusivity. You no longer have a country all filled with broadly similarly thinking people, and there is the luxury of decades of peacetime and relative prosperity which allow for this to happen. All part of being a pluralistic society.

[Swervin_Mervin]

But that's what the people want. This is a natural progression of democracy, freedom, equal rights and inclusivity. You no longer have a country all filled with broadly similarly thinking people, and there is the luxury of decades of peacetime and relative prosperity which allow for this to happen. All part of being a pluralistic society.

Gets to the heart of matters I think. It's why the Tories were fractured over Europe and it's now why Labour is fractured and eating itself from the inside.

There's going to be some rough times ahead. I wonder whether one outcome of the next GE may be another referendum on a switch to Proportional Representation, given the apparent fragmentation of the vote.

[ZedLeg]

It’s hard to say it’s democracy when it’s becoming increasingly clear that right wing businessmen and governments have been sinking 100s of millions of dollars into attacking progressive politics all over the world imo.

[Jobbo]

Starmer being replaced by Burnham or our Ange?

If Burnham were already an MP, I think the formal process would have started by now for him to replace Starmer.

We risk a Streeting/Rayner fight with Streeting winning. I’d prefer Miliband to the lot of them - but I think losing a general election is a real barrier to him becoming Labour leader again.

Unfortunately I can only see it getting worse

Gilts don't lie and UK plc is in deep trouble

Nobody has any plan which will fix it.

What we need is a party with a solid and coherent plan to rejoin the EU which will help the economy and allow 50%+ of the people to feel like there’s one option which actually speaks for them.

[Jobbo]

Funny how, prior to 2024, the reason the country was ungovernable was because the Conservative Party couldn't govern it.

Now, apparently, it's the media's fault

And the reality is, it’s such a crap career these days that most MPs aren’t able to run the country as ministers. Of every party.

[Simon]

If Burnham were already an MP, I think the formal process would have started by now for him to replace Starmer.

We risk a Streeting/Rayner fight with Streeting winning. I’d prefer Miliband to the lot of them - but I think losing a general election is a real barrier to him becoming Labour leader again.

Unfortunately I can only see it getting worse

Gilts don't lie and UK plc is in deep trouble

Nobody has any plan which will fix it.

What we need is a party with a solid and coherent plan to rejoin the EU which will help the economy and allow 50%+ of the people to feel like there’s one option which actually speaks for them.

That's the LibDems then.

[Swervin_Mervin]

If Burnham were already an MP, I think the formal process would have started by now for him to replace Starmer.

We risk a Streeting/Rayner fight with Streeting winning. I’d prefer Miliband to the lot of them - but I think losing a general election is a real barrier to him becoming Labour leader again.

Unfortunately I can only see it getting worse

Gilts don't lie and UK plc is in deep trouble

Nobody has any plan which will fix it.

What we need is a party with a solid and coherent plan to rejoin the EU which will help the economy and allow 50%+ of the people to feel like there’s one option which actually speaks for them.

That's not going to fix the fundamental issues we now have with our political system, or economy.

[Swervin_Mervin]

Genuinely never thought I'd be rooting for Starmer, but I now find myself in that strange position.

[dinny_g]

Funny how, prior to 2024, the reason the country was ungovernable was because the Conservative Party couldn't govern it.

Now, apparently, it's the media's fault

And the reality is, it’s such a crap career these days that most MPs aren’t able to run the country as ministers. Of every party.

True... in so many cases, doing the right thing will cause you to NOT get re-elected - either personally or cause your party to lose power. But in the past, at least through my rose coloured spectacles, politicians largely did "the right thing", rather than "the selfish personal thing" and trusted that the electorate would see it was the right thing in the end. THAT was the job.

But nowadays, perhaps due to media scrutiny or more likely social media, MP's just want to save their skins and flip and change like a weather vane in a storm in a desperate bid to keep their jobs, country be damned.

[integrale_evo]

Is there really that much love for Burnham?

Sure, I get he’s popular around Manchester, but does the rest of the country love him that much? I know absolutely nothing about him at all and is not someone I’ve ever heard anyone mention other than on the news

[Beany]

I mean, Burnham is centre/soft left, so the right leaning, blairite parts of the PLP will just stab him in the back privately, then publicly and in the press.

You know, like Corbyn.

Large parts of the Labour party are terrified of actually being seen as left leaning in any form and they'll burn the whole fucking party to the ground and salt the earth rather than see that happen.

[Swervin_Mervin]

I mean, Burnham is centre/soft left, so the right leaning, blairite parts of the PLP will just stab him in the back privately, then publicly and in the press.

You know, like Corbyn.

Large parts of the Labour party are terrified of actually being seen as left leaning in any form and they'll burn the whole fucking party to the ground and salt the earth rather than see that happen.

He seems to be as close to being able to bridge the two halves as anyone else tbh. I'd say he's more traditional Labour than anyone else - left but not socialist zealot left.

I can't decide what I think of him. I mean, I don't like him one bit, but on the other hand Manchester's growth is significantly outstripping any other part of the UK and has been for some time. The integrated transport network is a huge positive. But he's also got a habit of burying investigations/reports, from the Rochdale grooming gangs and GMP's failings, to the latest which relates to the loans being paid out to developers by GM.

I've never voted for him for Mayor.

[Rich B]

I’m not sure why anyone in the labour party would want to launch a leadership challenge tbh. No one is going to transform anything anywhere near fast enough to change the direction/opinions and as soon as the press find out you forgot to take a library book back in 2012 you’re fucked