Team management ideas?

[Gavster]

Totally OT question but a lot of you are very knowledgeable about corporate stuff so might have some useful insights.

I remotely manage a small team of content creators (3 people) for a retail chain. The first person works at the head office or films in-store, the second person works remotely abroad editing, and the third person is the part-time 'face' of the business, filming content wherever they need to be, always with person 1.

Being social media work, there's lots of regular daily/weekly deliverables, we need approximately 20+ videos to be produced a week, plus posting, scheduling and creating IG stories content.

I'm having a LOT of issues with sketchy accountability, because we're rarely all in the same place. E.g. they say they were filming in store all day, then I check out the metadata and it runs from 2pm to 6pm, which even allowing for planning and breaks looks like a short day on site.

Or the remote guy goes AWOL for a day, doesn't submit anything. When chased he says he half-finished editing a big batch of videos, which he'll finish tomorrow and send for approval. My suspicion is that he did f'all for a day then smashed out the videos the next day.

The problem I have is that the bosses who I answer to are big on accountability and to be honest, they verge on presenteeism. And my suspicions are really bugging me.

The team have a lot of freedom to do whatever tasks they want each day. And nobody is doing timelogs for their working hours, or anything like that, and I'm not sure that's the answer anyway.

In general we all have a good relationship too, but I'm being pushed to keep an eye on everyone fulfilling their contracted hours and responsibilities and unsure how to approach this.

[DeskJockey]

Tricky situation as you don't want to micromanage, but something might need doing.

Q1: are they managing to deliver content to agreed timelines?
Q2: how are they paid? Per deliverable or salary?
Q3: are they given objectives/KPIs?

[mik]

Just lay it out - you are under scrutiny so you need to be able to defend them. Very difficult when they are incommunicado. They need to respond if you get in touch, and you need a broad outline of where they are going to be and when - you respect that they manage their own time to an extent so it only needs to be “loose” at this time unless they give you reason to tighten it up.

[jamcg]

Timesheets would give you some sort of removal from their doings surely, like the day they were 2-6, they could hand in a timesheet saying 9-2 was travel plus coffee shop meeting to rehearse content in a comfortable environment, therefore hours written up and reasoned- would give higher ups something that says they are doing their work, but also informal enough that it’s not like clocking on and off and having to have a program to move your mouse in teams for example

[dinny_g]

Mik is correct - they’re adults. Talk to the as such.

Maybe set up a one off team event (VR Racing is a great shout) and outline the expectations placed on you and by extension, by them.

[Sundayjumper]

I’m agreeing with mik. It keeps you as the good guy, while telling them they need to pull their socks up.

Try not to resort to timesheets. They’re a massive PITA to manage.

Daily (virtual) standups ? We have those. It ensures everyone is at least online at the same time for a bit each day. Quick update of what’s been done, what’s coming up etc.

[Barry]

Agree on being straight with them, but also you need to decide if their output per week (or whatever metric suits) is "enough" then worrying about how/when they deliver that isn't that big a deal?

I have 2/3 of my team WFH and others hybrid, we track work and work rates but I try to leave them to organise themselves outside of the few schuduled catchups I have each week.

Sounds like they need to be a little more communicative with what and when, so you have some idea of where they are, but if they're producing and its up to standards.. <shrug> ?

[Beany]

Just lay it out - you are under scrutiny so you need to be able to defend them. Very difficult when they are incommunicado. They need to respond if you get in touch, and you need a broad outline of where they are going to be and when - you respect that they manage their own time to an extent so it only needs to be “loose” at this time unless they give you reason to tighten it up.

Some unformed stream of consciousness stuff that started off as a follow on to the above, then went on wild tangents

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A regular "ey up, what's up" type zoom meeting can also be helpful, just to ensure they're definitely around at a fixed time of the day, go through what the plan is for the day, broadly expected output, etc, although make sure to have 25% of the time dedicated to talking shit

The expected output can be 'fuck all' if they're researching, rehearsing etc - and that's fine if it's capable of being evidenced to the client, and you can justify it.

Present it as enabling you to say "Yeah, Dave spent two hours reading up about low sodium bread and making sure he didn't trip over his words when talking about it, and he needed to do that so he could talk about it confidently in the finished product we had knocked up the next day, you utter cretin. Get off this call and learn how media production works" in their defense, rather than just saying "Chris in BigClient Ltd HR expects timesheets from us now so just fuckin' do 'em" ; show them how it's actually of benefit to them, via you being able to tell clients to get bent if they question your staffs work ethic.

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If you think they're slacking a bit (which can just happen as they test the boundaries of what they can get away with - don't lie, we've all done it....) get into the habit of regularly pinging all involved (at a time when they should all reasonably be available - so if your editor is US based then say, 4pm) with something that needs a confirmatory response - and see who responds promptly.

I've used that a fair bit lately as me and my team have been fuckin' busy and we're often doing our own things - so if I needed to spend two hours in a meeting and needed someone else to wach the Alerts system for me while I'm unavailable, if I ping @channel and I didn't get a response from them, I started getting obviously sarcy, with the inference that sarcy would change to grumpy if things didn't improve.

They've never seen me actually grumpy - and they've seen how I talk about clients incompetent IT departments on occasion - and as such they don't want to hear me talking about them like that. And I've been clear I don't want to do it either, so it's best for everyone if they assume that if I ask them to do something, it's for a good reason, and if they think it sucks, the first thing I'll say is 'this is why we have to do it - now, how do we make it not suck'. We've had a good few workflow improvements out of that process.

(An important note is to not waste their time with unimportant group/direct pings too. Only do that if you really need their eyes/input (or you have a really good meme), and it'll help, prevents ping fatigue. I had someone at my old place who DMd me all the time over unimportant stuff and it got to the stage where I had to tell them that they need to keep that for shit that matters - not about how their desk toys look all goofy today.)

As a result they've started paying a lot more attention to my broadcast/direct pings and they're generally more available. Including one who'd regularly send screenshot of his phone on single digit battery charge (it going flat would explain them not responding) - the last few months I've never seen it below 70% because he knows I expect him to be contactable in office hours, and the phone being charged lets him have that cuppa in the garden, but still be contactable, which I suspect was *not* the case before. Do the work, have a little reward, but be available in case you're needed - that's all I ask.

Under me, being incommunicado isn't acceptable. If you're busy, and can't answer my question because you're deep in thought, a "busy here, but noted", "job for this aft", or just a single appropriate emoji response is fine by me, and will always get a thumbs up in return. Obviously that won't work for everyone, but making it clear that being available in-hours is the expectation and that it's not that difficult to do (and you won't get further up the career chain if you don't start getting used to it now ) is pretty key in basically any IT/comms-related industry these days.

(I typed up a rant here about people sending thousand word slack DMs that could have been a two minute call if they'd asked if I have a minute in a minute, but that's a different topic for a different day )

As far as I'm concerned, not being available on Slack is like me coming to your desk and finding your jacket on the back, but you not there. If that happens for hours at a time, questions will be getting asked.

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It might also be worth bringing them into the processes you're going through, if you don't already, and in detail - they simply might not realise that "the job was done, what are they moaning about" isn't something a bluechip will accept. Seeing the reams of documentation and paperwork and all the fucking 'busy work' shit I bet you have to go through to keep things running in the background might make them think a bit more clearly about being available/present, and being able to evidence their productivity. Pin it as "Gavs Friday Afternoon Business Process Comedy Half Hour, with your host, Gav" - come look at this absolute bullshit that happens when you're not looking!

I did something similar with ISO27001 when trying to get my team to help out with it more - ISO27001 isn't hugely complex once you stop treating it as a scary black box that only the managers deal with. Staff went from actively trying to avoid having anything to do with it (to the extent of booking time off around external audit time), to helping out if they could (improving documentation, pointing out potential risks to analyse, etc) because they realised it wasn't that bloody hard - it's made the management teams life way easier in that respect.

Mind you I'm completely new to staff management and my direct reports are quite easy to look after, being quite young and impressionable and me being a generally agreeable and laid back chap, so they take it on faith that I'm teaching them good habits, etc - so what works for me might not work for you if your staffers are more recalcitrant and stuck in their ways. We had some like that before, and since some of us on the management team started gently changing expectations within the company, they left of their own accord because they couldn't have their precious little fiefdoms and their unanncounced two hour breaks away from any comms devices. No skin off my nose, frankly - the staff who replaced them have been far more accommodating, better behaved and just more damned useful.

We changed our interview technique a little too around that time - focussing a lot more on the person rather than the detailed skillset; I'd rather train someone who can do Saltstack in how to do Ansible if they're a good sort, than hire someone who knows ansible, but comes across as an arrogant prick. You can train the right someone up on anything if they have the right attitude, but training someone to not be a fucking problem is harder, if they think they're better than the company they work for...

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They are adults, but everyone has their foibles and habits and you know them better than we do, so I imagine you can find some way of getting their heads around to the idea of operating like....you know, a fucking business, if you put your mind to it!

Anyway, speaking of time management, I need to get out of my PJs, get to the shops and get some fuckin' wine...

[duncs500]

Can I take a guess that they're early 30s or younger?

I work with a lot of mid-20s to early-30s and the attitude to work is often very different. One of my reports is very similar and it's the first time I've had such difficulty in managing someone. He's been passed over for promotion and he will blame everyone else for it but himself, he's got all the skills/intelligence he needs but really seems to struggle to just do a normal day's work, always living in the grey areas where you can't prove he's doing very little, or not sick etc but it's also fairly obvious to an experienced person.

I had to have a bit of a chat with him to explain that whilst he might think he's doing loads of great things, and that he's being hard done by, if nobody else can see the evidence and perceive that he's a workshy shyster then it really doesn't matter whether he is or not, he'll still not get anywhere. Perception of others is really important, know your clients and employers and what they expect in a good employee! I work in an old school industry where most clients and senior staff have barely got used to WFH, so you have to still make it look like you're logging in and doing something for your salary.

[Rich B]

I would agree on being straight about why you need some accountability, but introducing things like daily catch ups and timesheets could be such a turn off (especially if they’re just to satisfy management rather than logging client billable hours ) that you’ll struggle to keep them up and risk alienating yourself from the team, or losing the team

How easy are they to replace? is it easier to manage expectations upwards rather than risk losing them?

Recruitment is a fucking nightmare.

[DeskJockey]

I would agree on being straight about why you need some accountability, but introducing things like daily catch ups and timesheets could be such a turn off (especially if they’re just to satisfy management rather than logging client billable hours ) that you’ll struggle to keep them up and risk alienating yourself from the team, or losing the team

How easy are they to replace? is it easier to manage expectations upwards rather than risk losing them?

Recruitment is a fucking nightmare.

That's what I wanted to understand (managing upwards). If they're delivering the required output, then I would focus on that.

[NGRhodes]

What’s worked well for me (leading small teams) is using a Kanban board (eg Trello).

Start simple , something like:
To Film: -> Prep -> Filming -> In Edit -> Review -> Scheduled -> Published
One card per video, and the team moves them along as they go. If the board’s moving, leave them to it. If something stalls, assume they’re stuck and check in with them, not to catch them out, just to help unblock.

The goal is visibility and pacing. Set loose weekly targets, e.g. around 20 videos, to keep everyone broadly aligned. It’s not enforced, but it helps flag issues early.

In my experience, async check-ins (teams/slack etc) work better than meetings for autonomous teams. Monday for plans, Friday to wrap up. Just enough structure to keep people connected without adding friction.

The key is making sure the team sees the value. The board isn’t there to watch them, it’s there to support them. If they know it helps you defend their time and output when questioned from above, they’re far more likely to buy in.

I agree about being open about your own constraints. If they understand the pressure you’re under, they’re usually happy to meet you halfway.
This approach gives you visibility without micromanaging, supports the team without nagging, and helps keep your bosses off your back

[V8Granite]

On bigger builds I keep it simple….

X amount of jobs and a time they can achieve that in. If I get the same excuses as to why it’s not done I change the timeline or change the people doing the task.

If people give me a load of reasons why a task can’t be done before starting, I sack them off, those people always turn out to be Whiney workers who find excuses. Working from home gives those people tons of oppertunity to do that.

If the tasks are being done, leave them to it, if not, figure out if it’s the task or the person.

It’s rarely the teams I’m given that I leave the project running with. Last one was a smooth as butter power station.

I get rid of lots of people, you are either pushing the work forward or you’re slowing it down. Good people should be well rewarded any way you see fit, they bring other people up.

Dave!

[V8Granite]

What’s worked well for me (leading small teams) is using a Kanban board (eg Trello).

Start simple , something like:
To Film: -> Prep -> Filming -> In Edit -> Review -> Scheduled -> Published
One card per video, and the team moves them along as they go. If the board’s moving, leave them to it. If something stalls, assume they’re stuck and check in with them, not to catch them out, just to help unblock.

The goal is visibility and pacing. Set loose weekly targets, e.g. around 20 videos, to keep everyone broadly aligned. It’s not enforced, but it helps flag issues early.

In my experience, async check-ins (teams/slack etc) work better than meetings for autonomous teams. Monday for plans, Friday to wrap up. Just enough structure to keep people connected without adding friction.

The key is making sure the team sees the value. The board isn’t there to watch them, it’s there to support them. If they know it helps you defend their time and output when questioned from above, they’re far more likely to buy in.

I agree about being open about your own constraints. If they understand the pressure you’re under, they’re usually happy to meet you halfway.
This approach gives you visibility without micromanaging, supports the team without nagging, and helps keep your bosses off your back

I like this, seeing where you are at a glance really helps your own planning without bollocks meetings all the time.

Dave!

[Beany]

Yeah if you can get Kanban to fit the use case - and get them to use it - then it'll save a lot of headaches and help with determining workflow slowdowns.

We use Asana in house, same difference at the end of the day, although getting people to use it properly is always the fun part.

[mr_jon]

Your remote guy is probably doing OE.

[Gavster]

Wow, loads of amazing feedback here, thank you all! Really useful ideas to help clarify the best approach for this.

Firstly a couple of things I hadn’t mentioned in the initial post.

We have daily standups each morning to clarify daily tasks and priorities, and they are definitely valuable.

I’ve had to raise the issue of under-delivery with the fully remote guy before. Out of the whole team, he is the one who will slide into doing as little as possible (like Benay says he tests the boundary) and then get very defensive if questioned. It is very obvious when he does it though! However, the actual quality of his work is generally high.

Replacing him is a very last resort. Last time we recruited it was very hard to find anyone good. It’s a good team when everyone is on form.

He believes that ‘my work is getting done’ so it’s all fine, whereas I’m seeing spare capacity to add more outputs into the workflow.

And yes they’re all 20 - 25 years old lol

I’ll have another direct chat with them, but this really comes down to how to manage their tasks and their time with greater accountability. The Kanban etc does feel like a good idea, although as Beany says, I’m feeling a world of pain getting them to actually use it properly.

Managing upwards is also a very good shout, also the VR racing sounds cool too. I realise there’s some ill feeling in the team because I’ve become more of a hawk recently and also got annoyed on Friday. So maybe the first thing is rebuilding the bridges then introduce systems.

[Gavster]

Your remote guy is probably doing OE.

What’s that?

[Gavster]

Oh other employment? In which case yes, he is, he also works with his father’s (rather large) company, which is known and I suspect has given him a sense of entitlement because he’s the boss’ son there.

[Beany]

I’ve had to raise the issue of under-delivery with the fully remote guy before. Out of the whole team, he is the one who will slide into doing as little as possible (like Benay says he tests the boundary) and then get very defensive if questioned. It is very obvious when he does it though! However, the actual quality of his work is generally high.

I dunno who this Benay chap is but he sounds like a pretty cool guy

If the opportunity arises, it might be worth having a quiet word with the guy about why he's inconsistent. Might be he's going through a bad relationship/family issues/general mental health etc and doesn't realise that he can, you know, explain that and maybe agree with you that if he's having a black wednesday, if he lets you know somethings gonna slip to the next day, at least then you know.

If he's just being a lazy git however, then as I said to my lads, if you tried that in any other job - any other job - you'd be gone three times over already. You've got the experience of working for more places for more years so you can speak with some authority on this.

DO NOT tell them that you haven't got shot of them because you like their work - tell them that you've not given them shit to now because you like *them* - if you frame it around the work, then they'll think they can use that as a bargaining chip....and that's their impenetrable fiefdom set up. And it might be true that their output, when they do it, is good. But you can't let them think that

If you got annoyed on Friday, walk them through exactly why (maybe an excuse to show the backend processes involved etc), and if they can justifiably say that, for example, something stupid caused you to be more annoyed than you needed to be (IE if the cat shat on the mat or something), then you can eat that and apologise for it. If it's all because the client is getting on your back, show them the processes involved and where you need help from them to make that Less Of A Fucking Problem.

But if they're just Being A Problem, getting them to come up with ideas as to how whatever it is being a problem, can be not a problem in future (IE are comms issues causing things to slip? OK, daily 3pm progress reports between themselves that they feed back to you) - it gives them a stake in operations and is more likely to make them stick to it, and stay engaged.

I'm generally a fan of enabling people to work better off their own backs, with me using my extensive experience of being poorly managed to help direct that, so they don't have to go through what I've gone through (lack of direction, poor comms, no wider scale goals, not caring if the job goes away (it's just a job) etc).

(just refreshed and seen comment about your editor being the bosses son - yeah, flip a coin if he responds to any of this, because he's set for life regardless - seen that a few times too over the years)

I've found people generally quite like seeing how the sausage is made and helping with the sausage making, if not too much is being asked of them.

Your lot are a bit younger than mine (25-30 but this is their second job, in most cases) so knocking good habits into them early is key.